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Marionette and Psychopath: Difference between pages

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[[File:icon_marionette.png|250px]]
[[File:icon_psychopath.png|250px]]
<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 10px;">Information</span>
<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 10px;">Information</span>


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<p class='flavour'>"Words, words. They're all we have to go on."</p>
<p class='flavour'>"Surprise!"</p>


<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 20px;">Character Showcase</span>
<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 20px;">Character Showcase</span>
<youtube>-2PtHuiuOaQ</youtube>
<youtube>av9gstmXl4I</youtube>


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== Summary ==
== Summary ==
"You think you are a good character, but you are not. The Demon knows who you are. [You neighbor the Demon]"
"Each day, before nominations, you may publicly choose a player: they die. If executed, you only die if you lose roshambo."


The Marionette doesn't know that they are a Minion.  
The Psychopath kills in broad daylight.
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*  
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<div class='example'>
Marianna is the Marionette, but thinks she is the {{Good|Undertaker}}. She wakes each night to learn who was executed that day, but her information is often wrong. Halfway through the game, the Demon tells her that she is the Marionette.  
The Psychopath chooses to kill the {{Good|Sailor}}. The {{Good|Sailor}} is sober, so does not die. The Psychopath may not use their ability again today.
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<div class='example'>
<div class='example'>
Lachlan is the Demon. He tells Sarah that she is the Marionette. Lachlan is lying. There is no Marionette.  
The Psychopath has been nominated by the {{Good|Barber}}, and is executed. In Roshambo, the {{Good|Barber}} has rock and the Psychopath has rock, so the Psychopath lives. The next day, the {{Good|Saint}} nominates and executes the Psychopath. The {{Good|Saint}} has paper and the Psychopath has scissors, so the Psychopath lives. The next day, the {{Good|Barber}} nominates and executes the Psychopath again. The {{Good|Barber}} has rock and the Psychopath has scissors, so the Psychopath dies.  
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<div class='example'>
The Demon tells Ben that he is the Marionette. Ben thinks he is the {{Good|Fortune Teller}}, but he isn’t. Ben doesn’t believe the Demon, and executes them. Good wins.
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== Tips & Tricks ==
== Tips & Tricks ==


* As a Marionette, you are essentially an evil {{Good|Drunk}} - not only do you not have the ability you think you do, but you don't have the alignment you think you do! The good news is that a lot of techniques you can use to detect a {{Good|Drunk}} will also work for a Marionette. If your information isn't adding up, or your ability doesn't work when it really should, you could actually be the Marionette instead of a good player!
* Reveal yourself publicly on the first day, or as early as possible, and start killing immediately. Even if you kill players that are not ideal, like players that have already used their ability, it is still helpful. If the good team is executing a player per day, and you and the Demon are killing two players per "day", then you still have the advantage, regardless of which players are dying. The good team may want to execute you immediately, particularly in a large game, but if it takes them a few days to do so, it should still be worth it.


* Even though you don't know it, your alignment is evil and you will register as evil to characters like the {{Good|Seamstress}} and the {{Good|Town Crier}}. You can use this to help determine your identity one way or another... but so can the town, so be careful about asking for players to use their abilities on you willy nilly!
* Wait on revealing yourself until the perfect opportunity. Depending on the script, there may be some extremely dangerous Townsfolk in play. Sacrificing a day or three of activity might be worth it, to make a surprise attack on a particularly powerful character, such as the {{Good|Lycanthrope}}, {{Good|King}}, or the {{Good|Cult Leader}}. Even if you only kill this one player before you die, that could be enough to save the game for the evil team.


* In most cases, the evil team is going to want to let you know that you should be working with them. If one of your neighbours tells you that you're a Marionette, take it seriously; while there's every possibility they're lying to you, they could also just be clueing you into your true identity, and if you out them and evil loses, you will lose along with them!
* Wait on revealing yourself until the very end of the game. If you can survive until the final three players, you can kill a player and win the game before the final day of nominations occur. Or, if there are four or five players alive, you can kill a player at that point, and force the good team to execute the Demon that day or face a loss that night.


* If you suspect you are a Marionette (either through your information being confusing or someone straight up telling you), then don't tell other Townsfolk you suspect that! If you're right and the town believes you, the good team will know the Demon must be one of your neighbours.
* Be aware that even though you are very powerful Minion, you have a significant downside - that the good team knows which player is a Minion. The good team knows one player that they don't need to execute to win the game. Also, characters that gain information about Minions can be particularly powerful, such as the {{Good|Noble}}, {{Good|Clockmaker}}, or {{Good|Balloonist}}.  


* Avoid nominating or voting for your neighbours unless the evidence is especially compelling. If you are a Marionette, the Demon must be one of your neighbours. Accidentally executing your Demon because you didn't know you were evil will be a bit of a bummer!
* Kill yourself if necessary. Towards the end of the game, it is often more useful for you to be dead (and one step closer to evil winning due to just two players alive) than alive and known to not be the Demon. You can use your ability to die, or even publicly announce that you are willing to die by the Demon to achieve this end.


* Narrow down which types of Minions are in play. The Marionette is by nature a secretive, invisible sort of Minion, while other Minions on the script might have more of a tell - confirming one of them also means confirming there isn't a Marionette to worry about. If you are in an 8 player game (1 Minion) and have just witnessed a {{Evil|Witch}} death, you're not the Marionette!
* Gain as much information as you can while you are alive. Listen in on private conversations, pay attention to which good players are which characters, and which players are planning what. Talk to everyone. You don't even need to talk to your own evil team, but you can if you want. Even though you may be annoying to the good players, the more information you have will mean you know who to attack each day.


* If you are confident you know who the Minions are, you can also be confident you are not secretly the Marionette. There are only a limited number of Minions in the game, so even if you don't know what kind of Minion they are, confirming who the Minion IS will tell all other good players they are not a Marionette.
* Soak up some executions at the appropriate time. Early on in the game, it is usually best if the players are executing other players, since the chance of them executing the Demon is low. Later in the game, it is usually best if the good team is executing you, because the chance of otherwise executing the Demon is high. If you can convince the good players to execute you at the times when the Demon is suspicious, the odds favour you. If you can convince the good team to avoid executing you at the times when the Demon is trusted, then you gain the benefit of a good player executed and a good player dying due to the Psychopath each day.  


* Hunt down the Demon with gusto! If you are a Marionette, the Demon is one of your neighbours. If you can prove the Demon is sitting somewhere else (for example, a {{Good|Fortune Teller}} ping on the other side of town), then you know you cannot be the Marionette! (Additionally if you ARE the Marionette, you point suspicion away from your Demon! Win-Win!)
* When there are just four or five players alive, think carefully about who to attack. A savvy good team will realise that going to the night phase with a living Psychopath and just four players alive will mean certain doom the following day, when you attack a player before nominations.


* If you are concerned you are a Marionette but can't get your neighbours to open up, you can always try convincing your neighbours that they're your Marionette instead. Evil players will know this isn't true, while good players have to contend with whether you're telling the truth or not and will behave differently. This can give you a clue as to who your secretly evil allies are... or secretly evil neighbours, anyway.  
* Don't be afraid to die, but try to live as long as possible. In a large game, a lucky good team that executes the Psychopath on the first day has removed and confirmed a Minion with a lot of time to spare. This is not helpful, and not very fun for you.  


* If you are convinced you are the Marionette, then you know your role is to protect your Demon. The town also knows the Marionette is a possibility, and will be on the lookout for tells you exist so that they can use you to take down your Demon. To keep town from suspecting you, change up your information so that it appears to be true instead - for example, if you believe you are a {{Good|Savant}}, make sure one statement is true and one is false each day.
* You can never reveal that you are the Psychopath, and just wait to be executed. The roshambo part of your ability will still activate, even if the good team has no idea that you are the Psychopath. This wastes an execution for the day, and will still allow you to attack a player the following day. As long as you don't lose roshambo, of course.  


* If you are a Demon, the Marionette is a responsibility you will have to decide how to interact with. It's absolutely beneficial to tell a Marionette their identity as soon as possible - this enables them to act to their true alignment, protect you, and not accidentally reveal you to the town when their ability malfunctions. It can also be useful to keep a Marionette in the dark - sometimes the most potent evil player is someone who is earnestly good! If your Marionette has won over the town, let them lead the charge (away from you). They'll still win in the end, just not for the reasons they thought!
* If there are characters that swap the Demons on the script, it can sometimes be useful to obviously not use your ability during the day, even if the good team knows for a fact that you are the Psychopath. For example, if an {{Evil|Imp}}, {{Evil|Fang Gu}}, or {{Evil|Pit-Hag}} are on the script, you can trick the good team into executing you as they may think that you no longer have your ability.


* If you are a Demon, nothing is stopping you telling your actually good neighbours that they are your Marionette. In fact, you can tell both of them, reassuring each that they are the 'real' Marionette and that the other is being duped! Since a Marionette doesn't know their true alignment, it will always be to these players' benefits to keep your claim secret and figure out for themselves if they are on your team or not - a process that will take some time and make them behave in ways counterproductive to the good team in the meanwhile. Just beware their wrath if they manage to figure it out - they will most certainly turn around and execute you, so make sure you have an exit plan!
* Learn some Roshambo (Paper-Rock-Scissors) psychology. Unlike normal, you don't need to win. Either winning or drawing is ok for you. Instead of trying to figure out what your roshambo opponent is going to do (a one in three chance), all you need to do is figure out what they are not going to do (a two in three chance). If you think they are not going to guess rock, guess scissors. If you think they are not going to guess scissors, guess paper. If you think that they are not going to guess paper, guess rock.


* If you are a Minion, tell your good neighbours that they are your Marionette! You get all the benefits of confusing the good team with none of the danger of losing the game by execution if or when you are discovered as a fraud!
* Every so often, kill an evil player. If the good team correctly assumes that you only kill good players, that is giving them too much information. Killing an evil player to make them look good might be worth it.


* Are you good, but have an uncooperative neighbour? Tell them that they're your Marionette! For a while at least, most players will work with you while unravelling their own identity, and you can utilise this trick to get them to share information and participate in plots with you that they otherwise wouldn't. Just make sure to come clean before the end so they know they have to work with the good team to win.
* An evil player can nominate you, and deliberately lose roshambo. However, if the good team knows this, then they can just execute that evil player the following day. This is sometimes, but rarely, worth it.  
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== Fighting the Marionette ==
== Fighting the Psychopath ==
 
* In the same way that you might look for the {{Good|Drunk}} in [[Trouble Brewing]], look for a player that is giving false information, even convincingly so. If a particular player's information doesn't add up, you may have found the Marionette. For example, if a player claims to be the {{Good|Empath}} and that they got a "0", but you suspect that one of their neighbours is evil, the {{Good|Empath}} may be the Marionette.
 
* If a player claims to be the Demon, and that you are the Marionette, you've got a problem. Are you the Marionette? Maybe not. If you think that the player is in fact the Demon, and that a Marionette is in play, talk to the Demon's other neighbouring player and see if you can figure out if they are the Marionette instead! If you think that the player who told you that you are the Marionette is not the Demon, then they are almost certainly a Minion instead. Either way, you've found an evil player (or a good player that needs to stop lying to you). If you have been told that you are the Marionette, but you figure out that you are not the Marionette, you've basically won the game.


* If you are confident that you are not the Marionette, but you've been told that you are the Marionette, tell the group this. The group will likely execute your neighbour, which means either a dead Demon, a dead Minion, or a dead good player that made a bluff that wasn't helping much or was just trolling.  
* Until the Psychopath reveals who they are and uses their ability, there is little you can do to fight the Psychopath. You won't know that the Psychopath is in play until their execution fails, and at that time you can formulate a strategy on how to deal with them.  


* Find out how many players have been told that they are the Marionette. If there is more than one, it is unlikely that a Marionette is in play at all.  
* Once a Psychopath has revealed themselves, consider executing them as soon as possible. Nominate and execute them every day until the Psychopath gets unlucky with Roshambo and dies. This strategy is best in large games where the Psychopath has revealed early. It is worth spending a few days to remove them, so as to avoid the Psychopath killing three, four, five, or even more players.  


* Pay attention to your neighbours. If you think that neither is the Demon, and neither have told you that you are the Marionette, you can probably just ignore the fact that a Marionette is in the game. As long as you keep your neighbours alive on the final day, the fact that a Marionette is in play isn't too much of a worry. Default to finding out which players are good, and which player is the Demon.  
* Once a Psychopath has revealed themselves, consider executing them each day, for as long as you don't have a solid reason to kill another player. If you don't have a clue who the Demon is, it is best to just execute the Psychopath over and over and hope for the best. When the game gets to four, five, or six players alive, you can turn your attention to finding the Demon.  


* If the Marionette is on the script, don't execute your own neighbours. You never can be too sure. Execute all other players instead, if you can.
* Once a Psychopath has revealed themselves, consider not executing them at all, if you have a clue or two on which player the Demon might be. It is usually best to take a shot at killing the Demon than wasting an execution on the Psychopath.  


* If you think the Marionette is in play, but that it isn't you, you know something very important - that the Demon and the Minion are sitting next to each other. Just as if you were the {{Good|Chef}} or the {{Good|Clockmaker}}, you have some very useful information to go on. Assume that two evil players are sitting next to each other, and see if this matches with the other information in the game. If it matches up, you've probably found out who the evil pair is. If it doesn't match up, there probably isn't a Marionette in play. Either way, you and all other good players know something useful.  
* If the group's strategy is to kill the Psychopath, make sure you are unanimous in your voting each day. Flip-flopping about your strategy will only benefit the evil team.  


* Normally, finding out that a player is a Minion is handy, but won't win the game for the good team. On the final day, learning that a long-dead player was actually the {{Evil|Mastermind}} is handy, but finding out that long-dead player was actually the Marionette is amazingly helpful. Even if a {{Evil|Pit-Hag}} has been changing characters willy nilly, or a {{Evil|Pukka}} has been making everyone's information dubious, the single piece of information - that a particular player is the Marionette - should be enough to win the game for the good team when just 3 players are left alive.  
* If the group's strategy is to leave the Psychopath alive and find the Demon, stay quiet about your more powerful character abilities, so as to give the Psychopath as little information as possible. Talk to players you trust (or any players other that the Psychopath, really) and put your information together in secret. The Psychopath may wander in earshot of your conversations, so beware, and feel free to whisper. Or, to throw the Psychopath off the scent, if you are a character that doesn't mind dying, publicly bluff as characters the Psychopath would want to kill, such as the {{Good|Bounty Hunter}} or the {{Good|Fisherman}}. Or, if you are a character that definitely doesn't want to die, publicly bluff as a character that would be a poor Psychopath kill, such as the {{Good|Chef}} or the {{Good|Snitch}}.


* Pay attention to players that were very vocal and enthusiastic about sharing information and helping the good team for a few days, then all of a sudden went silent. They may have been told that they are the Marionette in the middle of the game, and had a complete mental breakdown ;)
* When nominations are called, get in early to nominate the Psychopath. If the nomination is successful, it will be you who plays Roshambo with the Psychopath, and you know that you are good. Be suspicious of other players who jump in with too much eagerness to nominate the Psychopath, as they may be evil players nominating the Psychopath, with the intent to deliberately lose Roshambo.


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Revision as of 16:33, 22 March 2023

Icon psychopath.png Information

Type Minion

"Surprise!"

Character Showcase

Summary

"Each day, before nominations, you may publicly choose a player: they die. If executed, you only die if you lose roshambo."

The Psychopath kills in broad daylight.

How to Run

Examples

The Psychopath chooses to kill the Sailor. The Sailor is sober, so does not die. The Psychopath may not use their ability again today.

The Psychopath has been nominated by the Barber, and is executed. In Roshambo, the Barber has rock and the Psychopath has rock, so the Psychopath lives. The next day, the Saint nominates and executes the Psychopath. The Saint has paper and the Psychopath has scissors, so the Psychopath lives. The next day, the Barber nominates and executes the Psychopath again. The Barber has rock and the Psychopath has scissors, so the Psychopath dies.

Tips & Tricks

  • Reveal yourself publicly on the first day, or as early as possible, and start killing immediately. Even if you kill players that are not ideal, like players that have already used their ability, it is still helpful. If the good team is executing a player per day, and you and the Demon are killing two players per "day", then you still have the advantage, regardless of which players are dying. The good team may want to execute you immediately, particularly in a large game, but if it takes them a few days to do so, it should still be worth it.
  • Wait on revealing yourself until the perfect opportunity. Depending on the script, there may be some extremely dangerous Townsfolk in play. Sacrificing a day or three of activity might be worth it, to make a surprise attack on a particularly powerful character, such as the Lycanthrope, King, or the Cult Leader. Even if you only kill this one player before you die, that could be enough to save the game for the evil team.
  • Wait on revealing yourself until the very end of the game. If you can survive until the final three players, you can kill a player and win the game before the final day of nominations occur. Or, if there are four or five players alive, you can kill a player at that point, and force the good team to execute the Demon that day or face a loss that night.
  • Be aware that even though you are very powerful Minion, you have a significant downside - that the good team knows which player is a Minion. The good team knows one player that they don't need to execute to win the game. Also, characters that gain information about Minions can be particularly powerful, such as the Noble, Clockmaker, or Balloonist.
  • Kill yourself if necessary. Towards the end of the game, it is often more useful for you to be dead (and one step closer to evil winning due to just two players alive) than alive and known to not be the Demon. You can use your ability to die, or even publicly announce that you are willing to die by the Demon to achieve this end.
  • Gain as much information as you can while you are alive. Listen in on private conversations, pay attention to which good players are which characters, and which players are planning what. Talk to everyone. You don't even need to talk to your own evil team, but you can if you want. Even though you may be annoying to the good players, the more information you have will mean you know who to attack each day.
  • Soak up some executions at the appropriate time. Early on in the game, it is usually best if the players are executing other players, since the chance of them executing the Demon is low. Later in the game, it is usually best if the good team is executing you, because the chance of otherwise executing the Demon is high. If you can convince the good players to execute you at the times when the Demon is suspicious, the odds favour you. If you can convince the good team to avoid executing you at the times when the Demon is trusted, then you gain the benefit of a good player executed and a good player dying due to the Psychopath each day.
  • When there are just four or five players alive, think carefully about who to attack. A savvy good team will realise that going to the night phase with a living Psychopath and just four players alive will mean certain doom the following day, when you attack a player before nominations.
  • Don't be afraid to die, but try to live as long as possible. In a large game, a lucky good team that executes the Psychopath on the first day has removed and confirmed a Minion with a lot of time to spare. This is not helpful, and not very fun for you.
  • You can never reveal that you are the Psychopath, and just wait to be executed. The roshambo part of your ability will still activate, even if the good team has no idea that you are the Psychopath. This wastes an execution for the day, and will still allow you to attack a player the following day. As long as you don't lose roshambo, of course.
  • If there are characters that swap the Demons on the script, it can sometimes be useful to obviously not use your ability during the day, even if the good team knows for a fact that you are the Psychopath. For example, if an Imp, Fang Gu, or Pit-Hag are on the script, you can trick the good team into executing you as they may think that you no longer have your ability.
  • Learn some Roshambo (Paper-Rock-Scissors) psychology. Unlike normal, you don't need to win. Either winning or drawing is ok for you. Instead of trying to figure out what your roshambo opponent is going to do (a one in three chance), all you need to do is figure out what they are not going to do (a two in three chance). If you think they are not going to guess rock, guess scissors. If you think they are not going to guess scissors, guess paper. If you think that they are not going to guess paper, guess rock.
  • Every so often, kill an evil player. If the good team correctly assumes that you only kill good players, that is giving them too much information. Killing an evil player to make them look good might be worth it.
  • An evil player can nominate you, and deliberately lose roshambo. However, if the good team knows this, then they can just execute that evil player the following day. This is sometimes, but rarely, worth it.

Fighting the Psychopath

  • Until the Psychopath reveals who they are and uses their ability, there is little you can do to fight the Psychopath. You won't know that the Psychopath is in play until their execution fails, and at that time you can formulate a strategy on how to deal with them.
  • Once a Psychopath has revealed themselves, consider executing them as soon as possible. Nominate and execute them every day until the Psychopath gets unlucky with Roshambo and dies. This strategy is best in large games where the Psychopath has revealed early. It is worth spending a few days to remove them, so as to avoid the Psychopath killing three, four, five, or even more players.
  • Once a Psychopath has revealed themselves, consider executing them each day, for as long as you don't have a solid reason to kill another player. If you don't have a clue who the Demon is, it is best to just execute the Psychopath over and over and hope for the best. When the game gets to four, five, or six players alive, you can turn your attention to finding the Demon.
  • Once a Psychopath has revealed themselves, consider not executing them at all, if you have a clue or two on which player the Demon might be. It is usually best to take a shot at killing the Demon than wasting an execution on the Psychopath.
  • If the group's strategy is to kill the Psychopath, make sure you are unanimous in your voting each day. Flip-flopping about your strategy will only benefit the evil team.
  • If the group's strategy is to leave the Psychopath alive and find the Demon, stay quiet about your more powerful character abilities, so as to give the Psychopath as little information as possible. Talk to players you trust (or any players other that the Psychopath, really) and put your information together in secret. The Psychopath may wander in earshot of your conversations, so beware, and feel free to whisper. Or, to throw the Psychopath off the scent, if you are a character that doesn't mind dying, publicly bluff as characters the Psychopath would want to kill, such as the Bounty Hunter or the Fisherman. Or, if you are a character that definitely doesn't want to die, publicly bluff as a character that would be a poor Psychopath kill, such as the Chef or the Snitch.
  • When nominations are called, get in early to nominate the Psychopath. If the nomination is successful, it will be you who plays Roshambo with the Psychopath, and you know that you are good. Be suspicious of other players who jump in with too much eagerness to nominate the Psychopath, as they may be evil players nominating the Psychopath, with the intent to deliberately lose Roshambo.