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Damsel and Heretic: Difference between pages

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[[File:icon_damsel.png|250px]]
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<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 10px;">Information</span>
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<p class='flavour'>"Don't touch the hair, honey."</p>
<p class='flavour'>"After the hail has smashed the roof and splintered the glass of the Cathedral windows, it melts again into the earth, like a dying lamb in the desert sun. Such is the parable of the madman."</p>


<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 20px;">Character Showcase</span>
<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 20px;">Character Showcase</span>
<youtube>GD9nurStvzM</youtube>
<youtube>wiCHP64lW9g</youtube>
 
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== Summary ==
== Summary ==
"All Minions know you are in play. If a Minion publicly guesses you (once), your team loses."
"Whoever wins, loses & whoever loses, wins, even if you are dead."


The Damsel absolutely, positively cannot be found out by the evil team.
The Heretic turns a win into a loss, and a loss into a win.
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<div class='example'>
<div class='example'>
Marianna is the Damsel. She is bluffing as the {{Good|Lycanthrope}}. The {{Evil|Witch}} guesses that Marianna is the Damsel. Evil wins.
On the first day, the Heretic publicly claims to be the Heretic. That night, the Demon kills themself. Evil wins.
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<div class='example'>
The Heretic does not reveal their character until the final day, when 3 players are alive. They convince the good team to execute a good player, leaving 2 players alive, one of which is the Demon. Good wins.
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<div class='example'>
The Heretic is dead. The {{Good|Saint}} is executed. Good wins.
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<div class='example'>
The Heretic is poisoned. The {{Evil|Assassin}} kills the Demon. Good wins.
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<div class='example'>
<div class='example'>
Doug is the Damsel. The {{Evil|Poisoner}} guesses that Julian is the Damsel. The game continues. The {{Evil|Goblin}} guesses that Doug is the Damsel. The game continues because the {{Evil|Poisoner}} has used up the one guess the Minions share.
There are 3 players alive. The Demon is executed. Because there is a Heretic in play, evil wins.
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== Tips & Tricks ==
== Tips & Tricks ==


* Don't tell anyone that you are the Damsel! Don't even hint that you might be! If an evil player believes that you are the Damsel, then correctly guesses that you are the Damsel, the evil team wins.  
* Keep the Demon alive at all costs. Normally, in non-Heretic games, the good team can win at any time (by executing the Demon), while the evil team can only win on the final day (by executing a non-Demon player). In a Heretic game, the evil team can win at any time (by executing the Demon), while the good team can only win on the final day (by executing a non-Demon player).  


* Tell one or two trusted players that you are the Damsel, so that the group doesn't put too much pressure on you to reveal who you are. You'll want to make very sure that these one or two players are good before telling them though. Characters that can confirm that they are good, such as the {{Good|Virgin}} or {{Good|Slayer}} are particularly useful, since you can sometimes trust them completely. Even characters that can almost prove that they are good, such as the {{Good|Undertaker}}, {{Good|Washerwoman}}, or {{Good|Juggler}} are worth talking to, trusting, and telling who you are.  
* It is extremely dangerous for the evil team to learn that there is a Heretic in play. If the Demon believes you, they may kill themself at night, losing the game, and therefore winning the game. Be very careful who you reveal yourself to.  


* Bluff as a Townsfolk, not an Outsider. All players know how many Outsiders are in play. All Minions know that a Damsel is in play. Minions will tend to be more suspicious of players claiming to be Outsiders if the number of claimed Outsiders equals the numbers of Outsiders in play. For example, if there is only meant to be one Outsider in play, and they know that there is a Damsel, and there is one player claiming to be the {{Good|Sweetheart}}, then the {{Good|Sweetheart}} is probably the Damsel.
* If you believe that the good team is losing badly, it may be safest to not reveal your identity to anyone, ever.


* The Minions know you're in play. Be attentive to which players are watching and listening more than usual.  
* Consider waiting until the final day of the game to out yourself as the Heretic. This is risky, because people may not believe you, but it’s better than having the Demon kill themself in the night and immediately win the game for evil. If you loudly proclaim that you are the Heretic when only three players are alive, even if you are dead, the good team will know that they need to execute a player that is NOT the Demon, and deliberately lose the game, which will win the game.  


* Avoid bluffing at all if the town is also fairly silent about their characters. If most other players have not revealed who they are, being silent means that you'll look like just another Townsfolk. Minions will need to choose randomly to guess correctly, and that's probably far too risky for them.  
* Search for good players who are able to confirm you as the Heretic, then work with them to orchestrate what would normally be a loss.  


* If you are a good character that isn't the Damsel, but the Damsel is on the script, be aware that is a great reason for good players to lie and act suspicious. Treat other players with less suspicion, put less pressure on them to reveal who they are (even when they have been nominated), and generally cut the good team some slack. Assuming that a Damsel is in play, even when nobody has claimed to be the Damsel, means that the real Damsel has some cover.
* Try to find a good player such as the {{Good|Courtier}} who is capable of making you drunk or poisoned. This will enable the good team to play for the win without fear of losing instead.


* If you are a good character that isn't the Damsel, pretend to be the Damsel and see if you can bait the Minion players into guessing that you are the Damsel. You'll probably only be convincing by spreading a rumour, not publicly claiming to be the Damsel, but you never know. If a Minion guesses that you are the Damsel, then the good team has found out who a Minion is, which is fantastic information. This strategy works even if there is a real Damsel in play too - in which case, the real Damsel can safely come out as the Damsel, since the Minions are only allowed one Damsel-guess per game.  
* Pay attention to characters that have win or lose conditions in their character ability, such as the {{Good|Mayor}}, {{Good|Klutz}}, {{Good|Saint}}, {{Evil|Mastermind}}, or {{Evil|Goblin}}. If you stay quiet about being the Heretic, the evil team may unknowingly be working to your advantage. For example, if the {{Evil|Goblin}} gets executed, good wins, or if an evil player is bluffing as the {{Good|Mayor}} and convinces the group to not execute on the final day, good wins.  


* Boldly claim to be the Damsel who has already been chosen by the {{Good|Huntsman}} and changed into a different character! If this were true, you would no longer be the Damsel, and therefore the Minions guessing that you are the Damsel will have no effect. Minions may not want to reveal who they are to risk a guess on a Damsel claiming to no longer be the Damsel. Be aware though... this strategy is very risky. Since you will really still be the Damsel, evil can still win by guessing that you are the Damsel, and they know who you are now.
* If you think that the good team is about to execute the Demon, you'll need to convince them otherwise. You can bluff as a Townsfolk character with conflicting information, or hint to them that executing this player is a bad, bad idea. As a last resort, reveal that you are the Heretic to dissuade them - avoiding the Demon being executed definitely results in avoiding a loss, but the Demon may or may not kill themself that night. It's better to trade a definite loss for a possible (or even, probable) loss.  


* If you suspect there's a {{Good|Huntsman}}, make them your number one priority - if you transform into a townsfolk, you gain a cool ability, and you can't be named by the Minions anymore. The good team will be working to reunite you, while the evil team will be working to intercept, so tread carefully while you make the hunter the hunted!
* When just three players are left alive, it is safe to reveal that you are the Heretic, since the game will end before nightfall. The good team may find this to be absolutely crucial information.


* If a Minion has come out and guessed who the Damsel is but it wasn't you, congratulations! The evil team only gets one chance for a Minion to name you, and that part of your ability is now inert. Feel free to come out and gloat a little bit!
* When just four players are left alive, it might be safe to reveal that you are the Heretic, since the game could end during the night via the Demon attacking as normal. The good team may find this to be absolutely crucial information. However, there is still an opportunity for the Demon to kill themself, so be wary.


* If a Minion has come out and guessed who the Damsel is but it wasn't you, congratulations! However, maybe it's worth being wary - it could have been an evil Townsfolk or a Demon pretending to make the guess, exactly so you'll come out and gloat and then an actual Minion can use the guess on you and win the game through your own hubris...
* It is often smarter to never really be 100% on what you claim to be. For example, if you claim that you are either the Heretic or the {{Good|Moonchild}}, then the good team is made aware that a Heretic might be in play, and can adjust their strategy accordingly, while the Demon is not convinced enough to take the game-ending step of killing themselves. Or, if you bluff as the {{Good|Juggler}}, then claim to be the Heretic, then bluff as the {{Good|Snake Charmer}}, again the good team is clued in to the possibility of a Heretic, but the Demon isn't sure. Unlike other characters, ambiguity is your friend. Just make sure you are 100% forthright with being the Heretic when it really counts, such as the final day!


* If you are killed (at night or by execution), you will no longer have an ability and can come out. Be wary about being too eager to get executed, though - Minions will be on the watch for that!
* It doesn't matter if you die. If you get nominated, there is no need to defend yourself unless you want to. If the Demon kills you at night, it's no problem. Don't worry about staying alive.


* You hold the fate of the game in your hands. Very few characters have this power. Remember how important you are. Much like the {{Good|Heretic}}, your ability can lose your team the game if the wrong people learn who you are at the wrong time. While you are alive, you are the most dangerous good player in the game (to your own team!).
* You hold the fate of the game in your hands. Very few characters have this power. Remember how important you are. All other Townsfolk and Outsider characters are written in such a way as to encourage you to "say whatever you want at any time", that even making mistakes won't end the game. For example, even if the {{Good|Mutant}} reveals who they are and is executed, the game continues. Even if the {{Good|Fortune Teller}} reveals who they are and dies on night 2, the game continues. But the Heretic is different. The words of the Heretic can sway the fate of the good team drastically and quickly. Even though you are an Outsider, you are the most dangerous good player in the game - to both teams.
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== Bluffing as the Damsel ==
== Bluffing as the Heretic ==
 
When bluffing as the Damsel, there are a few things you should keep in mind:
 
* The Damsel is a pretty dangerous character to be, since coming out to the wrong person at the wrong time could cost their entire team the game. If you're going to bluff as a Damsel, you need to embody that mindset - no Damsel would publicly come out to the group, for example. Play as if your ability will lose you the game (cautious, cagey, and openly lying), or the good team might smell that you are not as helpless as you seem!


* The Damsel is an advanced bluff compared to some due to its win/lose nature - both the good team and evil team are very incentivized to figure out who and where a Damsel is. Don't be discouraged though - while the good team will be paying extra attention to you, they can't easily call you out (because if they're wrong, they lose!) and if you manage to convince them? You're golden. A lot of risk for a lot of reward!
When bluffing as the Heretic, there are a few things you should keep in mind:


* Damsels will typically try to pick out a good player they trust to bring into the fold, and you can do the same. Find a good player you want to spend a lot of time worrying about you and a potential {{Good|Huntsman}}, and not your Demon and the rest of the evil team. By sharing your secret, you can easily create a bond of trust that will last at least for a few days, and hopefully keep that player working on you and your problem as opposed to the more pressure issue of who the Demon is!
* Most Heretics will wait until the final day to reveal themselves. If you want to bluff as the Heretic in this way, you'll need either to stay silent about your character for the majority of the game, or bluff as another character first. Depending on the group, this type of behaviour may get you executed before the final day arrives. Minions may not fear being executed, especially as the Heretic ability continues to function while dead. But a Demon bluffing as a Heretic is risky indeed. Come up with an alternate bluff to use first - and make it believable.


* Coordinating with your evil team can lead to very effective Damsel bluffs. The most obvious option is to have one of you as the {{Good|Huntsman}} and one of you as the Damsel. Once they 'find' you and successfully turn you, you both come out and both look good! If you're going to try this, make sure to let the good team do the hard work of reuniting you - if you come together without any real reason to do so, players may find you suspicious instead. Also be ready to abandon the bluff if your fellow evil player comes under fire - the Damsel can exist without a {{Good|Huntsman}}, and if you look like the victim of a devious Minion trap, all the better!
* Keep Heretic in mind as a backup bluff. If your first bluff doesn't cut the mustard, then claiming that you were lying because you are the Heretic is fairly believable. Heretics have a good reason to lie. If your first bluff succeeds, then you don't need to claim to be the Heretic, so feel free to make it a risky, ridiculous one!  


* If you can convince an evil teammate to fall on their sword, a triumphant Damsel coming out after the Minion has been tricked into guessing the wrong person is a great look. Not only will the good team be incredibly relieved that the Damsel's lose condition is off the table, but they'll be satisfied that an evil player has been outed! Be careful to time this well - a Minion making a Damsel guess will usually do so when they're either very certain or very desperate. Pull it off though, and you'll be believed good for the rest of the game!
* If a fellow evil player has been nominated, and you really need to keep that player alive, suddenly claim to be the Heretic, and claim that you think the group is about to execute the Demon, and lose the game. If the good team is rattled enough, especially considering that they thought the nominee was evil enough to be nominated in the first place, they may back off immediately and vote on a different player.


* If you're going to pretend to have transformed, make sure to pick your new character carefully - doubling up with a good player will undo all your hard work so far since the {{Good|Huntsman}} always transforms the Damsel into something not-in-play.
* If two evil players claim to be the Heretic, it will seem that one of them must be telling the truth, and the other evil. Normally, when two evil players both claim to be the same good character, the group will want to execute both players, believing one to be good and one to be evil. However, if the good team believes that one player is evil, and one really is the Heretic, then they may choose to keep both players alive out of fear of accidentally executing the Demon.  


* If you're going to pretend to have transformed, deliberately double up with another good player and accuse them of lying about their ability! The Damsel cannot become an in-play character, so if the town believes you, the other person must be lying. :)
* A real Heretic is unlikely to come out loud and proud on day 1. If you are more coy, hinting that you might be the Heretic without definitely confirming so, you will seem more convincing.  


* If your first good bluff is falling apart, use the Damsel as a fallback - similar to the {{Good|Mutant}}, good players will probably back off if they think the reason you lied was to cover up your Outsider identity, rather than the fact you are evil. Everyone knows the Damsel is a potential problem, so some pointed eye contact and whispers should hopefully get your point across!
* Pay a lot of attention to who the good team is planning on executing. Unlike other bluffs, where if the good team believes you they will probably not execute you, if the good team believes you, they may execute you because they now want to execute good players, particularly late in the game. If the good team believes that a Heretic is in play, their strategy will reverse. Make sure this is actually what you want beforehand.


* Try to get an evil player who's not a Minion to publicly guess someone as the Damsel. This may convince the Damsel that the Minions have used their one guess for the game and so they may reveal themselves publicly - allowing a real Minion to then guess the real Damsel and win. Be very careful here - in most games, the only evil players who aren't Minions will be the demon, so it's a risky strategy to pull off as it will often require the demon claiming to be an evil role. But if you have a good player who's turned Evil - perhaps the {{Good|Goon}}, or a player turned evil by the {{Evil|Mezepheles}} or {{Good|Bounty Hunter}} - they can serve this role admirably. Just make sure the evil player bluffing as the Minion doesn't pick the *actual* Damsel, as the Damsel will then be wise to their ruse when the game doesn't end.
* If you are a good player, consider bluffing as the Heretic. If the evil team believes you, they may convince their Demon to kill themself at night, winning the game for the good team! However, if there actually is a real Heretic in play, you've accidentally helped the evil team win instead. It's pretty risky! Also, bluffing as the Heretic causes a lot of confusion among the good team, as they won't know for certain what their goals are. However, the occasional good player that bluffs as the Heretic will certainly make Demon players doubt whether or not taking the risk of suicide at night is worth it, as many games are played. For the good team, Demons that doubt real Heretic claims are certainly beneficial, and this can only happen when the occasional good player bluffs as the Heretic.


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[[Category:Experimental Characters]]
[[Category:Experimental Characters]]
[[Category:Outsiders]]
[[Category:Outsider]]

Revision as of 15:33, 22 March 2023

Icon heretic.png Information

Type Outsider

"After the hail has smashed the roof and splintered the glass of the Cathedral windows, it melts again into the earth, like a dying lamb in the desert sun. Such is the parable of the madman."

Character Showcase

Summary

"Whoever wins, loses & whoever loses, wins, even if you are dead."

The Heretic turns a win into a loss, and a loss into a win.

How to Run

Examples

On the first day, the Heretic publicly claims to be the Heretic. That night, the Demon kills themself. Evil wins.

The Heretic does not reveal their character until the final day, when 3 players are alive. They convince the good team to execute a good player, leaving 2 players alive, one of which is the Demon. Good wins.

The Heretic is dead. The Saint is executed. Good wins.

The Heretic is poisoned. The Assassin kills the Demon. Good wins.

There are 3 players alive. The Demon is executed. Because there is a Heretic in play, evil wins.

Tips & Tricks

  • Keep the Demon alive at all costs. Normally, in non-Heretic games, the good team can win at any time (by executing the Demon), while the evil team can only win on the final day (by executing a non-Demon player). In a Heretic game, the evil team can win at any time (by executing the Demon), while the good team can only win on the final day (by executing a non-Demon player).
  • It is extremely dangerous for the evil team to learn that there is a Heretic in play. If the Demon believes you, they may kill themself at night, losing the game, and therefore winning the game. Be very careful who you reveal yourself to.
  • If you believe that the good team is losing badly, it may be safest to not reveal your identity to anyone, ever.
  • Consider waiting until the final day of the game to out yourself as the Heretic. This is risky, because people may not believe you, but it’s better than having the Demon kill themself in the night and immediately win the game for evil. If you loudly proclaim that you are the Heretic when only three players are alive, even if you are dead, the good team will know that they need to execute a player that is NOT the Demon, and deliberately lose the game, which will win the game.
  • Search for good players who are able to confirm you as the Heretic, then work with them to orchestrate what would normally be a loss.
  • Try to find a good player such as the Courtier who is capable of making you drunk or poisoned. This will enable the good team to play for the win without fear of losing instead.
  • Pay attention to characters that have win or lose conditions in their character ability, such as the Mayor, Klutz, Saint, Mastermind, or Goblin. If you stay quiet about being the Heretic, the evil team may unknowingly be working to your advantage. For example, if the Goblin gets executed, good wins, or if an evil player is bluffing as the Mayor and convinces the group to not execute on the final day, good wins.
  • If you think that the good team is about to execute the Demon, you'll need to convince them otherwise. You can bluff as a Townsfolk character with conflicting information, or hint to them that executing this player is a bad, bad idea. As a last resort, reveal that you are the Heretic to dissuade them - avoiding the Demon being executed definitely results in avoiding a loss, but the Demon may or may not kill themself that night. It's better to trade a definite loss for a possible (or even, probable) loss.
  • When just three players are left alive, it is safe to reveal that you are the Heretic, since the game will end before nightfall. The good team may find this to be absolutely crucial information.
  • When just four players are left alive, it might be safe to reveal that you are the Heretic, since the game could end during the night via the Demon attacking as normal. The good team may find this to be absolutely crucial information. However, there is still an opportunity for the Demon to kill themself, so be wary.
  • It is often smarter to never really be 100% on what you claim to be. For example, if you claim that you are either the Heretic or the Moonchild, then the good team is made aware that a Heretic might be in play, and can adjust their strategy accordingly, while the Demon is not convinced enough to take the game-ending step of killing themselves. Or, if you bluff as the Juggler, then claim to be the Heretic, then bluff as the Snake Charmer, again the good team is clued in to the possibility of a Heretic, but the Demon isn't sure. Unlike other characters, ambiguity is your friend. Just make sure you are 100% forthright with being the Heretic when it really counts, such as the final day!
  • It doesn't matter if you die. If you get nominated, there is no need to defend yourself unless you want to. If the Demon kills you at night, it's no problem. Don't worry about staying alive.
  • You hold the fate of the game in your hands. Very few characters have this power. Remember how important you are. All other Townsfolk and Outsider characters are written in such a way as to encourage you to "say whatever you want at any time", that even making mistakes won't end the game. For example, even if the Mutant reveals who they are and is executed, the game continues. Even if the Fortune Teller reveals who they are and dies on night 2, the game continues. But the Heretic is different. The words of the Heretic can sway the fate of the good team drastically and quickly. Even though you are an Outsider, you are the most dangerous good player in the game - to both teams.

Bluffing as the Heretic

When bluffing as the Heretic, there are a few things you should keep in mind:

  • Most Heretics will wait until the final day to reveal themselves. If you want to bluff as the Heretic in this way, you'll need either to stay silent about your character for the majority of the game, or bluff as another character first. Depending on the group, this type of behaviour may get you executed before the final day arrives. Minions may not fear being executed, especially as the Heretic ability continues to function while dead. But a Demon bluffing as a Heretic is risky indeed. Come up with an alternate bluff to use first - and make it believable.
  • Keep Heretic in mind as a backup bluff. If your first bluff doesn't cut the mustard, then claiming that you were lying because you are the Heretic is fairly believable. Heretics have a good reason to lie. If your first bluff succeeds, then you don't need to claim to be the Heretic, so feel free to make it a risky, ridiculous one!
  • If a fellow evil player has been nominated, and you really need to keep that player alive, suddenly claim to be the Heretic, and claim that you think the group is about to execute the Demon, and lose the game. If the good team is rattled enough, especially considering that they thought the nominee was evil enough to be nominated in the first place, they may back off immediately and vote on a different player.
  • If two evil players claim to be the Heretic, it will seem that one of them must be telling the truth, and the other evil. Normally, when two evil players both claim to be the same good character, the group will want to execute both players, believing one to be good and one to be evil. However, if the good team believes that one player is evil, and one really is the Heretic, then they may choose to keep both players alive out of fear of accidentally executing the Demon.
  • A real Heretic is unlikely to come out loud and proud on day 1. If you are more coy, hinting that you might be the Heretic without definitely confirming so, you will seem more convincing.
  • Pay a lot of attention to who the good team is planning on executing. Unlike other bluffs, where if the good team believes you they will probably not execute you, if the good team believes you, they may execute you because they now want to execute good players, particularly late in the game. If the good team believes that a Heretic is in play, their strategy will reverse. Make sure this is actually what you want beforehand.
  • If you are a good player, consider bluffing as the Heretic. If the evil team believes you, they may convince their Demon to kill themself at night, winning the game for the good team! However, if there actually is a real Heretic in play, you've accidentally helped the evil team win instead. It's pretty risky! Also, bluffing as the Heretic causes a lot of confusion among the good team, as they won't know for certain what their goals are. However, the occasional good player that bluffs as the Heretic will certainly make Demon players doubt whether or not taking the risk of suicide at night is worth it, as many games are played. For the good team, Demons that doubt real Heretic claims are certainly beneficial, and this can only happen when the occasional good player bluffs as the Heretic.