Damsel and Saint: Difference between pages

Revision as of 15:19, 22 March 2023

Information

Type	Outsider
Artist	Aiden Roberts

"Wisdom begets peace. Patience begets wisdom. Fear not, for the time shall come when fear too shall pass. Let us pray, and may the unity of our vision make saints of us all."

Appears in

Cult of the Clocktower Episode by Andrew Nathenson

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Summary

"If you die by execution, your team loses."

The Saint ends the game if they are executed.

How to Run

Examples

There are seven players alive and nominations are in progress. The Saint gets four votes and is about to die. Then, the Baron is nominated but only gets three votes. No more nominations occur today. The Saint is executed, and evil wins.

The Imp is nominated, and the players vote. The Gunslinger kills the Saint. The Saint dies, and the game continues.

The Saint is executed. However, the Scapegoat's ability is triggered, so the Scapegoat dies instead. The game continues, because the Saint did not die.

Tips & Tricks

Do not get executed.

No, really. Don't. If you die by execution, the game ends, and your whole team loses. Make sure the good team knows you are the Saint! Tell it in the streets! Tell it from the rooftops! Tell it to everybody! You must be believed to be a good player, or it's curtains. If you have been nominated, cry black and blue that you are the Saint, loudly and publicly... the fate of the game depends on it.

To help prove that you are good, you can arrange for other good players to confirm your identity. Kill players sitting between you and an Empath so that the Empath learns your alignment. Convince the Fortune Teller to select you of a night time to prove you are not the Demon. Find a Ravenkeeper and get them to agree to choose you so they learn who you are. Get a Slayer to attempt to slay you.The Demon will usually not want to kill you of a night time, so the question of who you really are will be asked by the group at some stage, and having some players back you up could be crucial.

Alternatively, either stay silent, or bluff as a juicy target for the Demon to attack, such as the Slayer or the Monk. If you die at night, then you remove the possibility of being executed accidentally by the good team. It's only executions that count for your ability.

Find out which other Outsiders are in play. If there are supposed to be two Outsiders in the game, and the only Outsiders to come out publicly are you and the Recluse, for example, then even though you both look inherently suspicious, there are supposed to be two Outsiders in play, so the good team may believe that you are good for this reason alone. If you're the only one, so much the better! It must be you and a Drunk

Bluffing as the Saint

When bluffing as the Saint, there are a few things you should keep in mind:

You would never wake, learn anything, or act during the day, except on your execution, at which point the game is already over.

Because of the Saint's lose condition, it is easily one of the best evil bluffs in the game. It is such a risk to execute you that the good team will usually err on the side of caution and leave you alone. This does not mean that it is bulletproof; on the final day, you're at the same risk as everyone else (since if they don't execute the Demon, they lose anyway). You'll also come under a reasonable amount of scrutiny as the game progresses.

Saint is often an excellent bluff for the Poisoner in particular. Even if the good team truly believe you to be evil, perhaps with information from all three of the Investigator, Empath, and Ravenkeeper, the good team may still be too scared to execute you before the final day, by when you've already done all the damage you need to. You can then either get executed and win for the evil team, or if you think the good team know you're not the Demon, have the Imp attack themself in the night and make you the new Demon.

If you are the Imp, you know that your execution causes your team to lose if there's no Scarlet Woman in the game. Because of that, if you're slated to be executed and try desperately to save yourself, the good team may correctly interpret that as a Demon trying to save themselves, at least long enough to kill themself and pass on the responsibilities to a Minion. That is severely limited by the Saint bluff, however - they may read that you want to avoid execution to stop your team from losing, but not know which team that is.

Bluffing as the Saint in a game with no Baron can be tricky since you will likely be conflicting with other Outsiders. Fortunately, your lose condition makes you a larger threat to execute over a Butler or Recluse; use this to your advantage to leverage the execution of a good player.

You may be detected as evil at some point during the game. A great counter-argument is that because you are the Saint, you are being targeted by the Storyteller. For example, you could say you are the Fortune Teller's false positive, or that an Empath getting an evil read on you is actually Drunk.

Good players benefit from bluffing as the Saint as well! Demons are unlikely to target a Saint since they would much rather they be executed. Using this to your advantage can allow you to survive a few days longer as an Empath or Fortune Teller.

If you are executed, it will become immediately obvious you are not the Saint when the game doesn't end. Be prepared to have a back up bluff, such as the Recluse, or a powerful Townsfolk who didn't want to die (like the Undertaker or Slayer).

Beware of Slayer(s)! The Saint is usually a very powerful bluff to keep yourself safe from execution, but if a Slayer is in play, they will very likely want to test you, and would not trigger the Saint's lose condition using their ability. One good way to circumvent this is to have a Minion bluff as the Saint, get slayed, and then have the Imp pass the Demonhood to them after that.

If you get nominated, drop any previous bluff and come out as the Saint. Claim that your previous information and character were a ploy to attempt to get the Demon to target you. This will usually give the good team significant pause.

Don't be afraid to claim to be the Saint, even if there's already one in play. The good team can usually resolve cases of two players claiming to be the same character by executing them both in either order, but this is not possible to do with the Saint.

Claiming to be an Outsider can obfuscate the presence of the Drunk, or cause the good team to think that a Baron is in play.

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 		<div id='character-details'>
-			[[File:icon_damsel.png|250px]]
+			[[File:icon_saint.png|250px]]
 			<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 10px;">Information</span>
@@ Line 13: / Line 13: @@
 					<td>Type</td>
 					<td>[[Character Types#Outsider|Outsider]]</td>
+				</tr>
+				<tr>
+					<td>Artist</td>
+					<td>Aiden Roberts</td>
 				</tr>
 			</table>
-			<p class='flavour'>"Don't touch the hair, honey."</p>
+			<p class='flavour'>"Wisdom begets peace. Patience begets wisdom. Fear not, for the time shall come when fear too shall pass. Let us pray, and may the unity of our vision make saints of us all."</p>
+			<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center;">Appears in</span>
+			[[File:logo_trouble_brewing.png|100px]]
+			<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 20px;">Cult of the Clocktower Episode</span>
+			<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 14px; text-align: center;">by Andrew Nathenson</span>
+			<div style='padding-bottom: 10px' class="html5audio" data-file="https://anchor.fm/s/daf1f9c/podcast/play/15144691/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fproduction%2F2020-5-13%2F82007111-44100-2-b610318605aae.mp3">You need to enable JavaScript to play this audio</div>
 		</div>
@@ Line 28: / Line 39: @@
 		<div class="small-12 large-6 columns">
 == Summary ==
-"All Minions know you are in play. If a Minion publicly guesses you (once), your team loses."
+"If you die by execution, your team loses."
-The Damsel absolutely, positively cannot be found out by the evil team.
+The Saint ends the game if they are executed.
 *
 *
@@ Line 48: / Line 59: @@
 			<div class='example'>
-				Marianna is the Damsel. She is bluffing as the {{Good|Lycanthrope}}. The {{Evil|Witch}} guesses that Marianna is the Damsel. Evil wins.
+				There are seven players alive and nominations are in progress. The Saint gets four votes and is about to die. Then, the {{Evil|Baron}} is nominated but only gets three votes. No more nominations occur today. The Saint is executed, and evil wins.
 			</div>
 			<div class='example'>
-				Doug is the Damsel. The {{Evil|Poisoner}} guesses that Julian is the Damsel. The game continues. The {{Evil|Goblin}} guesses that Doug is the Damsel. The game continues because the {{Evil|Poisoner}} has used up the one guess the Minions share.
+				The {{Evil|Imp}} is nominated, and the players vote. The {{Traveler|Gunslinger}} kills the Saint. The Saint dies, and the game continues.
+			</div>
+			<div class='example'>
+				The Saint is executed. However, the  {{Traveler|Scapegoat}}'s ability is triggered, so the {{Traveler|Scapegoat}} dies instead. The game continues, because the Saint did not die.
 			</div>
@@ Line 64: / Line 79: @@
 == Tips & Tricks ==
-* Don't tell anyone that you are the Damsel! Don't even hint that you might be! If an evil player believes that you are the Damsel, then correctly guesses that you are the Damsel, the evil team wins.
+* Do not get executed.
-* Tell one or two trusted players that you are the Damsel, so that the group doesn't put too much pressure on you to reveal who you are. You'll want to make very sure that these one or two players are good before telling them though. Characters that can confirm that they are good, such as the {{Good|Virgin}} or {{Good|Slayer}} are particularly useful, since you can sometimes trust them completely. Even characters that can almost prove that they are good, such as the {{Good|Undertaker}}, {{Good|Washerwoman}}, or {{Good|Juggler}} are worth talking to, trusting, and telling who you are.
-* Bluff as a Townsfolk, not an Outsider. All players know how many Outsiders are in play. All Minions know that a Damsel is in play. Minions will tend to be more suspicious of players claiming to be Outsiders if the number of claimed Outsiders equals the numbers of Outsiders in play. For example, if there is only meant to be one Outsider in play, and they know that there is a Damsel, and there is one player claiming to be the {{Good|Sweetheart}}, then the {{Good|Sweetheart}} is probably the Damsel.
-* The Minions know you're in play. Be attentive to which players are watching and listening more than usual.
+* No, really. Don't. If you die by execution, the game ends, and your whole team loses. Make sure the good team knows you are the Saint! Tell it in the streets! Tell it from the rooftops! Tell it to everybody! You must be believed to be a good player, or it's curtains. If you have been nominated, cry black and blue that you are the Saint, loudly and publicly... the fate of the game depends on it.
-* Avoid bluffing at all if the town is also fairly silent about their characters. If most other players have not revealed who they are, being silent means that you'll look like just another Townsfolk. Minions will need to choose randomly to guess correctly, and that's probably far too risky for them.
+* To help prove that you are good, you can arrange for other good players to confirm your identity. Kill players sitting between you and an {{Good|Empath}} so that the {{Good|Empath}} learns your alignment. Convince the {{Good|Fortune Teller}} to select you of a night time to prove you are not the Demon. Find a {{Good|Ravenkeeper}} and get them to agree to choose you so they learn who you are. Get a {{Good|Slayer}} to attempt to slay you.The Demon will usually not want to kill you of a night time, so the question of who you really are will be asked by the group at some stage, and having some players back you up could be crucial.
-* If you are a good character that isn't the Damsel, but the Damsel is on the script, be aware that is a great reason for good players to lie and act suspicious. Treat other players with less suspicion, put less pressure on them to reveal who they are (even when they have been nominated), and generally cut the good team some slack. Assuming that a Damsel is in play, even when nobody has claimed to be the Damsel, means that the real Damsel has some cover.
+* Alternatively, either stay silent, or bluff as a juicy target for the Demon to attack, such as the {{Good|Slayer}} or the {{Good|Monk}}. If you die at night, then you remove the possibility of being executed accidentally by the good team. It's only executions that count for your ability.
-* If you are a good character that isn't the Damsel, pretend to be the Damsel and see if you can bait the Minion players into guessing that you are the Damsel. You'll probably only be convincing by spreading a rumour, not publicly claiming to be the Damsel, but you never know. If a Minion guesses that you are the Damsel, then the good team has found out who a Minion is, which is fantastic information. This strategy works even if there is a real Damsel in play too - in which case, the real Damsel can safely come out as the Damsel, since the Minions are only allowed one Damsel-guess per game.
+* Find out which other Outsiders are in play. If there are supposed to be two Outsiders in the game, and the only Outsiders to come out publicly are you and the {{Good|Recluse}}, for example, then even though you both look inherently suspicious, there are supposed to be two Outsiders in play, so the good team may believe that you are good for this reason alone. If you're the only one, so much the better! It must be you and a {{Good|Drunk}}
-* Boldly claim to be the Damsel who has already been chosen by the {{Good|Huntsman}} and changed into a different character! If this were true, you would no longer be the Damsel, and therefore the Minions guessing that you are the Damsel will have no effect. Minions may not want to reveal who they are to risk a guess on a Damsel claiming to no longer be the Damsel. Be aware though... this strategy is very risky. Since you will really still be the Damsel, evil can still win by guessing that you are the Damsel, and they know who you are now.
-* If you suspect there's a {{Good|Huntsman}}, make them your number one priority - if you transform into a townsfolk, you gain a cool ability, and you can't be named by the Minions anymore. The good team will be working to reunite you, while the evil team will be working to intercept, so tread carefully while you make the hunter the hunted!
-* If a Minion has come out and guessed who the Damsel is but it wasn't you, congratulations! The evil team only gets one chance for a Minion to name you, and that part of your ability is now inert. Feel free to come out and gloat a little bit!
-* If a Minion has come out and guessed who the Damsel is but it wasn't you, congratulations! However, maybe it's worth being wary - it could have been an evil Townsfolk or a Demon pretending to make the guess, exactly so you'll come out and gloat and then an actual Minion can use the guess on you and win the game through your own hubris...
-* If you are killed (at night or by execution), you will no longer have an ability and can come out. Be wary about being too eager to get executed, though - Minions will be on the watch for that!
-* You hold the fate of the game in your hands. Very few characters have this power. Remember how important you are. Much like the {{Good|Heretic}}, your ability can lose your team the game if the wrong people learn who you are at the wrong time. While you are alive, you are the most dangerous good player in the game (to your own team!).
 		</div>
@@ Line 96: / Line 95: @@
 		<div class="small-12 large-12 columns" style="padding-right: 0;">
-== Bluffing as the Damsel ==
+== Bluffing as the Saint ==
+When bluffing as the Saint, there are a few things you should keep in mind:
+* You would never wake, learn anything, or act during the day, except on your execution, at which point the game is already over.
+* Because of the Saint's lose condition, it is easily one of the best evil bluffs in the game. It is such a risk to execute you that the good team will usually err on the side of caution and leave you alone. This does not mean that it is bulletproof; on the final day, you're at the same risk as everyone else (since if they don't execute the Demon, they lose anyway). You'll also come under a reasonable amount of scrutiny as the game progresses.
-When bluffing as the Damsel, there are a few things you should keep in mind:
+* Saint is often an excellent bluff for the {{Evil|Poisoner}} in particular. Even if the good team truly believe you to be evil, perhaps with information from all three of the {{Good|Investigator}}, {{Good|Empath}}, and {{Good|Ravenkeeper}}, the good team may still be too scared to execute you before the final day, by when you've already done all the damage you need to. You can then either get executed and win for the evil team, or if you think the good team know you're not the Demon, have the {{Evil|Imp}} attack themself in the night and make you the new Demon.
-* The Damsel is a pretty dangerous character to be, since coming out to the wrong person at the wrong time could cost their entire team the game. If you're going to bluff as a Damsel, you need to embody that mindset - no Damsel would publicly come out to the group, for example. Play as if your ability will lose you the game (cautious, cagey, and openly lying), or the good team might smell that you are not as helpless as you seem!
+* If you are the {{Evil|Imp}}, you know that your execution causes your team to lose if there's no {{Evil|Scarlet Woman}} in the game. Because of that, if you're slated to be executed and try desperately to save yourself, the good team may correctly interpret that as a Demon trying to save themselves, at least long enough to kill themself and pass on the responsibilities to a Minion. That is severely limited by the Saint bluff, however - they may read that you want to avoid execution to stop your team from losing, but not know which team that is.
-* The Damsel is an advanced bluff compared to some due to its win/lose nature - both the good team and evil team are very incentivized to figure out who and where a Damsel is. Don't be discouraged though - while the good team will be paying extra attention to you, they can't easily call you out (because if they're wrong, they lose!) and if you manage to convince them? You're golden. A lot of risk for a lot of reward!
+* Bluffing as the Saint in a game with no {{Evil|Baron}} can be tricky since you will likely be conflicting with other Outsiders. Fortunately, your lose condition makes you a larger threat to execute over a {{Good|Butler}} or {{Good|Recluse}}; use this to your advantage to leverage the execution of a good player.
-* Damsels will typically try to pick out a good player they trust to bring into the fold, and you can do the same. Find a good player you want to spend a lot of time worrying about you and a potential {{Good|Huntsman}}, and not your Demon and the rest of the evil team. By sharing your secret, you can easily create a bond of trust that will last at least for a few days, and hopefully keep that player working on you and your problem as opposed to the more pressure issue of who the Demon is!
+* You may be detected as evil at some point during the game. A great counter-argument is that because you are the Saint, you are being targeted by the Storyteller. For example, you could say you are the {{Good|Fortune Teller}}'s false positive, or that an {{Good|Empath}} getting an evil read on you is actually {{Good|Drunk}}.
-* Coordinating with your evil team can lead to very effective Damsel bluffs. The most obvious option is to have one of you as the {{Good|Huntsman}} and one of you as the Damsel. Once they 'find' you and successfully turn you, you both come out and both look good! If you're going to try this, make sure to let the good team do the hard work of reuniting you - if you come together without any real reason to do so, players may find you suspicious instead. Also be ready to abandon the bluff if your fellow evil player comes under fire - the Damsel can exist without a {{Good|Huntsman}}, and if you look like the victim of a devious Minion trap, all the better!
+* Good players benefit from bluffing as the Saint as well! Demons are unlikely to target a Saint since they would much rather they be executed. Using this to your advantage can allow you to survive a few days longer as an {{Good|Empath}} or {{Good|Fortune Teller}}.
-* If you can convince an evil teammate to fall on their sword, a triumphant Damsel coming out after the Minion has been tricked into guessing the wrong person is a great look. Not only will the good team be incredibly relieved that the Damsel's lose condition is off the table, but they'll be satisfied that an evil player has been outed! Be careful to time this well - a Minion making a Damsel guess will usually do so when they're either very certain or very desperate. Pull it off though, and you'll be believed good for the rest of the game!
+* If you are executed, it will become immediately obvious you are not the Saint when the game doesn't end. Be prepared to have a back up bluff, such as the {{Good|Recluse}}, or a powerful Townsfolk who didn't want to die (like the {{Good|Undertaker}} or {{Good|Slayer}}).
-* If you're going to pretend to have transformed, make sure to pick your new character carefully - doubling up with a good player will undo all your hard work so far since the {{Good|Huntsman}} always transforms the Damsel into something not-in-play.
+* Beware of {{Good|Slayer}}(s)! The Saint is usually a very powerful bluff to keep yourself safe from execution, but if a {{Good|Slayer}} is in play, they will very likely want to test you, and would not trigger the Saint's lose condition using their ability. One good way to circumvent this is to have a Minion bluff as the Saint, get slayed, and then have the {{Evil|Imp}} pass the Demonhood to them after that.
-* If you're going to pretend to have transformed, deliberately double up with another good player and accuse them of lying about their ability! The Damsel cannot become an in-play character, so if the town believes you, the other person must be lying. :)
+* If you get nominated, drop any previous bluff and come out as the Saint. Claim that your previous information and character were a ploy to attempt to get the Demon to target you. This will usually give the good team significant pause.
-* If your first good bluff is falling apart, use the Damsel as a fallback - similar to the {{Good|Mutant}}, good players will probably back off if they think the reason you lied was to cover up your Outsider identity, rather than the fact you are evil. Everyone knows the Damsel is a potential problem, so some pointed eye contact and whispers should hopefully get your point across!
+* Don't be afraid to claim to be the Saint, even if there's already one in play. The good team can usually resolve cases of two players claiming to be the same character by executing them both in either order, but this is not possible to do with the Saint.
-* Try to get an evil player who's not a Minion to publicly guess someone as the Damsel. This may convince the Damsel that the Minions have used their one guess for the game and so they may reveal themselves publicly - allowing a real Minion to then guess the real Damsel and win. Be very careful here - in most games, the only evil players who aren't Minions will be the demon, so it's a risky strategy to pull off as it will often require the demon claiming to be an evil role. But if you have a good player who's turned Evil - perhaps the {{Good|Goon}}, or a player turned evil by the {{Evil|Mezepheles}} or {{Good|Bounty Hunter}} - they can serve this role admirably. Just make sure the evil player bluffing as the Minion doesn't pick the *actual* Damsel, as the Damsel will then be wise to their ruse when the game doesn't end.
+* Claiming to be an Outsider can obfuscate the presence of the {{Good|Drunk}}, or cause the good team to think that a {{Evil|Baron}} is in play.
 		</div>
@@ Line 124: / Line 129: @@
 </div>
-[[Category:Experimental Characters]]
+[[Category:Trouble Brewing]]
-[[Category:Outsider]]
+[[Category:Outsiders]]