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Vizier and Organ Grinder: Difference between pages

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<div id='character-details'>
<div id='character-details'>


[[File:icon_vizier.png|250px]]
[[File:icon_organgrinder.png|250px]]
<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 10px;">Information</span>
<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 10px;">Information</span>


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<tr>
<tr>
<td>Type</td>
<td>Type</td>
<td>[[Character Types #Minion|Minion]]</td>
<td>[[Character Types#Minion|Minion]]</td>
</tr>
</tr>
<tr>
<tr>
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<tr>
<tr>
<td>Revealed</td>
<td>Revealed</td>
<td>20/04/2023</td>
<td>23/03/2023</td>
</tr>
</tr>
</table>
</table>


<p class='flavour'>“An excellent decision, as always, sire. Such a petty crime as bumping into the Bishop indeed deserves your ‘justice’ and ‘mercy’. Take a stroll in the gardens. Visit the gallery and peruse the sculptures of Von Strauf. Relax, sire. Leave everything… to me.”</p>
<p class='flavour'>"Round and round the handles go. The more you dance the less you know."</p>


<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 20px;">Character Showcase</span>
<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 20px;">Character Showcase</span>
<youtube>AhVreLNTwoQ</youtube>
<youtube>Ku_V4l1cICo</youtube>
 
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</span>
</span>
<table style="width: 90%; margin: 0 auto;">
<table style="width: 90%; margin: 0 auto;">
{{Jinx|Alsaahir|alsaahir|Good|If the Vizier is in play, the Alsaahir must also guess which Demon(s) are in play.}}
{{Jinx|Butler|butler|Good|If the Organ Grinder is causing eyes closed voting, the Butler may raise their hand to vote but their vote is only counted if their master voted too.}}
{{Jinx|Courtier|courtier|Good|If the Vizier loses their ability, they learn this. If the Vizier is executed while they have their ability, their team wins.}}
{{Jinx|Fearmonger|fearmonger|Evil|The Vizier wakes with the Fearmonger, learns who they choose and cannot choose to immediately execute that player.}}
{{Jinx|Investigator|investigator|Good|If the Investigator learns that the Vizier is in play, the existence of the Vizier is not announced by the Storyteller.}}
{{Jinx|Lil' Monsta|lilmonsta|Evil|The Vizier can die by execution if they are babysitting Lil' Monsta.}}
{{Jinx|Magician|magician|Good|If the Vizier and Magician are both in play, the Demon does not learn the Minions.}}
{{Jinx|Politician|politician|Good|The Politician might register as evil to the Vizier.}}
{{Jinx|Preacher|preacher|Good|If the Vizier loses their ability, they learn this. If the Vizier is executed while they have their ability, their team wins.}}
{{Jinx|Zealot|zealot|Good|The Zealot might register as evil to the Vizier.}}
</table>
</table>


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<div class="small-12 large-6 columns">
<div class="small-12 large-6 columns">
== Summary ==
== Summary ==
"All players know you are the Vizier. You cannot die during the day. If good voted, you may choose to execute immediately."
"All players keep their eyes closed when voting and the vote tally is secret. Each night, choose if you are drunk until dusk."


The Vizier executes players without the town’s consent.
The Organ Grinder makes voting secret.
* On the first day, all players learn that the Vizier is in play, and which player it is.
* When a player is nominated, players vote with eyes closed.
* During the day, the Vizier can not die by any means.
* The Storyteller does not count the votes out loud, and does not reveal how many players voted once voting is complete.
* After a vote is tallied, if the Vizier chooses to execute the nominee (and at least one good player voted), they are executed immediately. This counts as the 1 execution allowed each day.
* The Storyteller does not reveal which player is “about to die”.
* After a vote is tallied, if the Vizier chooses to execute the nominee (and no good players voted), nothing happens.
* After nominations have closed, the Storyteller reveals which player is executed, as normal.
* Even if the vote tally is less than 50% of the living players, the Vizier may still execute. Even if another player has more votes than the current player, the Vizier may still execute.
* Dead players may vote once if they have a vote token. Their vote token is removed at the end of the day instead of after the vote.
* The Vizier does not have to force an execution each day.
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== How to Run ==
== How to Run ==
When the first night has ended, declare that the Vizier is in play, and which player it is.
 
If a vote has just been tallied, and one or more good players voted, and the Vizier declares that the nominee is executed, that player is executed and dies. No more nominations, votes, or executions occur today. </div>
Each night, wake the Organ Grinder. The Organ Grinder either nods or shakes their head. If they nod their head, mark them with the '''DRUNK''' reminder. If they shake their head, remove their '''DRUNK''' reminder. Put the Organ Grinder to sleep.  
 
When a player has been nominated and a vote is just about to begin, and the Organ Grinder is sober, ask all players to close their eyes. If they ask why, tell them that an Organ Grinder is in play. When counting votes, do so silently. Afterwards, do not reveal how many players voted, nor if the nominee is “about to die”. If there were enough votes to execute the nominee, mark them with the '''ABOUT TO DIE''' reminder. Ask players to open their eyes, and if there are any more nominations.
 
When nominations are closed, declare that the player marked '''ABOUT TO DIE''', is executed.
 
<div class="example" style="color: #5d2123; font-style: italic; font-family: GoudyOldStyle;">
Players are not allowed to use other methods to determine who is voting, such as touch or sound. It is a secret.
</div>
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<div class='example'>
<div class='example'>
The {{Good|King}} has been nominated. Five people vote, but the Vizier does not use their ability. The {{Evil|Boomdandy}} is nominated and eight people vote. The Vizier uses their ability and the {{Evil|Boomdandy}} is executed immediately.
There are 8 players alive. The {{Good|Noble}} is nominated. All players close eyes to vote and the {{Good|Noble}} gets 5 votes. The {{Evil|Imp}} is nominated. All players close eyes to vote and the Imp gets 7 votes. The {{Good|Pixie}} is nominated. All players close eyes to vote and the {{Good|Pixie}} gets 4 votes. After nominations close, the Storyteller declares that Doug (the {{Evil|Imp}}) is executed and dies, and that good has won.
</div>
 
<div class='example'>
The Demon has seven votes against them, and is “about to die”. The Vizier nominates Bill, the {{Good|Barber}}. Two evil players and one good player vote. The Vizier declares that Bill is executed. The Demon survives today.
</div>
<div class='example'>
The town nominates and executes the Vizier. The Vizier does not die. That night, The Demon kills the Vizier.
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== Tips & Tricks ==
== Tips & Tricks ==
* To state the obvious – execute people! At the end of the day your ability is to execute whoever you feel like executing, so there’s no point not using it. Execute with abandon, execute with joy, execute with whimsy!


* Don’t always execute! Good players will be reading into your execution choices and denials as a source of information, so the players you choose not to execute are often just as important as those you do choose to execute.
* Consider carefully if you ever want to get yourself executed. Bearing in mind that when you die, it’s likely you’ll be outed as the Organ Grinder because votes will suddenly become open. Maybe you think your Demon might be executed instead if you don’t get enough votes yourself? Maybe your Demon is the one leading the charge against you and getting executed at their behest will convince town that they’re most likely good?
 
* Consider when you’re going to claim to have voted - you can’t afford to claim too wildly about when you’ve voted and when you haven’t, as the good team will work out that something is awry when the votes claimed don’t line up with actual executions. It’s often best to only lie about who you’ve voted for at crux moments so you can hide among the masses.
 
* Don’t feel the need to vote for people you don’t want executed in order to blend in. No-one knows who you’re voting for, so you never need to vote for an evil player in the entire game if you don’t want to!
 
* Try to create situations where there are lots of nominations in a day. The good team will struggle to try and keep track of all the votes that happen and which ones they did and didn't vote on which will give Evil players to bluff being confused as well.


* Who votes when you execute is easy to comprehend information for the good team too. If you execute with only one vote, that player is confirmed to be good and you can’t expect to have an opportunity to vote on them later as good players don’t have an incentive to put even a single vote on them.
* Lie with abandon about when you’ve voted! No-one can know for sure who’s the one lying among the group, you’re only one vote among several that had to vote a given way for anyone to be executed, so you can just say whatever you like about voting to suit your agenda.


* Everyone knows who you are so don’t obviously talk to your evil team – you don’t need a bluff because everyone knows who you are so you can’t really claim anything else most of the time, so there’s only so much you need to talk to your fellow evils anyway.
* Remember that you don’t know who’s been voted for and put on the block either. Be wary of any nomination of your Demon as you can never know if there was actually a groundswell of support for their execution that you hadn’t expected and they might now be on the block.


* Talk to everyone! Even good players should appreciate a chance to see how you’re thinking and try to get a social read on your plans and you can talk to your evil team in the process to catch up with them too.
* Coordinate votes with your evil team - while you don’t have a majority in votes, the good team not being able to coordinate as easily means that uniting together behind certain nominations might allow you to swing executions in your favour, especially if your whole team is alive in the mid-game.


* Trust your social reads and the hints dropped in town square – these are probably the main way you’re going to get information!
* Be wary of endgame. If the game goes to a final three and the good team are pretty certain that you are the Organ Grinder, then they’ve got a 50/50 between the other two living players as to which is the Demon. Do your best to continue to obfuscate that fact in the endgame - you very much need to still be a viable Demon candidate in final three or your chances aren’t great! This might be a good reason to vote for yourself on the penultimate day - yes your ability goes out of play, but it’s an execution on someone who isn’t your Demon and it leaves three Demon candidates on the final day, not just two.


* Whispering to your fellow evil players at night if they’re sat next to you is one of the only ways you can talk to your compatriots to get any information and learn what’s happening from an evil perspective, without throwing shade on them by extension.
* Control the narrative. Try to organize the entire town to execute people you think would be good to execute. The good team’s only hope of executing is by working together as they can't see who is voting for what, so try to get them voting on the same page as you.


* You need cover and a strategy for why you don’t execute any given player – at some point you’ll need to not execute if your Demon gets voted on so having set up plausible deniability beforehand as to certain people aren’t being executed is important.
* Promise dead players you will vote with them and then don't do so. Any ghost votes that get used and wasted early or mid-game on anyone that's not the Demon are a success for you.
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<div class="small-12 large-12 columns" style="padding-right: 0;">


== Fighting the Vizier ==
== Fighting the Organ Grinder ==
* The Vizier is a great source of information for the good team about who is good. Extracting that information from who counted as good for the Vizier to execute using their vote is often tricky, but absolutely worthwhile. The best info is obviously if the Vizier executes with only 1 vote, as that player is confirmed good, but in later days if they execute with only 3 or 4 votes, that’s still good information.
 
* Pay just as much attention to who the Vizier chooses not to force the execution on as those that they do execute. The Vizier can’t just hit the first nomination of every day, or the Demon will eventually be nominated and they’ll be struggling to explain why they’re not executing, so they’ll need some subtlety as to who they execute. You need to try to see through that subtlety to find out their true limitations of who they’re willing to execute!
 
* You know the Vizier is not the Demon. They’re evil, so they will affect abilities that detect alignment, but they also aren’t the Demon and don’t have to be factored into any other information and can be avoided by selection characters.


* On the final day, if the Vizier is still alive, one single good vote on the non-Demon player is all the Vizier needs to win the game. However, you have some strong information to convince your fellow good players – if the player you’re accusing is not the Demon, the Vizier would already have pushed through their execution and won the game, so the fact the Vizier isn’t forcing that execution means that you can’t afford to have anyone good vote on anyone else.  
* Discuss your nominations before making them. It is more likely for a vote to go through if all good players fully understand the accusation and logic before the nomination is made and other players might be able to contribute information towards a nomination that you can try to rally people behind.


* Make sure that any abilities that take place during the day are used before nominations are open. Once nominations open, the day might end at any moment from a Vizier forcing an execution through, so you will need to find time to use any daytime abilities before that.
* Make your intent to vote clear early! It’s a natural instinct in Clocktower to want to watch the other votes as they go round in order to inform your own, so you may not speak up earlier to not lock yourself into voting one way or the other. In an Organ Grinder game, though, you can’t see the votes and you want to coordinate, so it’s worth letting people know you intend to vote so they know it’s potentially worth voting with you.


* Keep in mind that nominations are your main weapon against the Vizier – choosing not to nominate again if the Vizier hasn’t forced an execution may be the best way to put through votes on people they’d have preferred not to execute.
* Conversely, make your intent not to vote clear as well! If you think you probably got enough votes on someone who feels like the best execution for the day, publicly announce you won’t be voting for anyone else as you think that person is the best choice. Encourage others to consider the same position - after all when you don’t know the results of a vote, fewer nominations means fewer chances to accidentally tie…


* Take advantage of good abilities that interact with execution and death and try to trick the Vizier into confirmation of those characters. A {{Good|Tea Lady}}, for example, is strongly confirmable if the Vizier tries to execute their neighbours a couple of times and they do not die from the execution.
* Pay attention to which players say they are voting on executions that seem to get beaten or fail. Evil will be saying they’re voting on things that they aren’t and not voting on things that they are.


* Whispering to or “accidentally” revealing information to the Vizier can throw off their executions – remember they only have as much information as they’ve managed to glean when everyone knows they’re evil, so if you can set it up to “leak” information that they can overhear to inform their executions, you can completely mislead them as to the game state.
* If you’re reasonably confident who the Organ Grinder is, maybe don’t bother nominating them. That’s one player that’s definitely not the Demon and having them go to the final 3 gives you a 50/50 choice between the other two!


* Be very purposeful in who you vote on. Every time the Vizier chooses to execute, it gives you information, but also every time they don’t choose to execute, that tells you a little bit too. Trying to manipulate the Vizier into executing certain people can give you a lot of information that they weren’t necessarily intending to reveal to you.
* Save your ghost vote for the final day, so you know it's making an impact. Amongst other things, Organ Grinders often want to die before the final day if they've been outed, so it's quite possible if you hold your ghost vote to the final day you might get to use it with your eyes open. Even if you don't get to keep your eyes open, it is still the day with your best odds of getting the Demon successfully.


</div>
</div>

Latest revision as of 10:11, 24 January 2025

Icon organgrinder.png Information

Type Minion
Artist Chloe McDougall
Revealed 23/03/2023

"Round and round the handles go. The more you dance the less you know."

Character Showcase

Related Jinxes (Open)

Icon butler.png

Butler

If the Organ Grinder is causing eyes closed voting, the Butler may raise their hand to vote but their vote is only counted if their master voted too.

Summary

"All players keep their eyes closed when voting and the vote tally is secret. Each night, choose if you are drunk until dusk."

The Organ Grinder makes voting secret.

  • When a player is nominated, players vote with eyes closed.
  • The Storyteller does not count the votes out loud, and does not reveal how many players voted once voting is complete.
  • The Storyteller does not reveal which player is “about to die”.
  • After nominations have closed, the Storyteller reveals which player is executed, as normal.
  • Dead players may vote once if they have a vote token. Their vote token is removed at the end of the day instead of after the vote.

How to Run

Each night, wake the Organ Grinder. The Organ Grinder either nods or shakes their head. If they nod their head, mark them with the DRUNK reminder. If they shake their head, remove their DRUNK reminder. Put the Organ Grinder to sleep.

When a player has been nominated and a vote is just about to begin, and the Organ Grinder is sober, ask all players to close their eyes. If they ask why, tell them that an Organ Grinder is in play. When counting votes, do so silently. Afterwards, do not reveal how many players voted, nor if the nominee is “about to die”. If there were enough votes to execute the nominee, mark them with the ABOUT TO DIE reminder. Ask players to open their eyes, and if there are any more nominations.

When nominations are closed, declare that the player marked ABOUT TO DIE, is executed.

Players are not allowed to use other methods to determine who is voting, such as touch or sound. It is a secret.

Examples

There are 8 players alive. The Noble is nominated. All players close eyes to vote and the Noble gets 5 votes. The Imp is nominated. All players close eyes to vote and the Imp gets 7 votes. The Pixie is nominated. All players close eyes to vote and the Pixie gets 4 votes. After nominations close, the Storyteller declares that Doug (the Imp) is executed and dies, and that good has won.

Tips & Tricks

  • Consider carefully if you ever want to get yourself executed. Bearing in mind that when you die, it’s likely you’ll be outed as the Organ Grinder because votes will suddenly become open. Maybe you think your Demon might be executed instead if you don’t get enough votes yourself? Maybe your Demon is the one leading the charge against you and getting executed at their behest will convince town that they’re most likely good?
  • Consider when you’re going to claim to have voted - you can’t afford to claim too wildly about when you’ve voted and when you haven’t, as the good team will work out that something is awry when the votes claimed don’t line up with actual executions. It’s often best to only lie about who you’ve voted for at crux moments so you can hide among the masses.
  • Don’t feel the need to vote for people you don’t want executed in order to blend in. No-one knows who you’re voting for, so you never need to vote for an evil player in the entire game if you don’t want to!
  • Try to create situations where there are lots of nominations in a day. The good team will struggle to try and keep track of all the votes that happen and which ones they did and didn't vote on which will give Evil players to bluff being confused as well.
  • Lie with abandon about when you’ve voted! No-one can know for sure who’s the one lying among the group, you’re only one vote among several that had to vote a given way for anyone to be executed, so you can just say whatever you like about voting to suit your agenda.
  • Remember that you don’t know who’s been voted for and put on the block either. Be wary of any nomination of your Demon as you can never know if there was actually a groundswell of support for their execution that you hadn’t expected and they might now be on the block.
  • Coordinate votes with your evil team - while you don’t have a majority in votes, the good team not being able to coordinate as easily means that uniting together behind certain nominations might allow you to swing executions in your favour, especially if your whole team is alive in the mid-game.
  • Be wary of endgame. If the game goes to a final three and the good team are pretty certain that you are the Organ Grinder, then they’ve got a 50/50 between the other two living players as to which is the Demon. Do your best to continue to obfuscate that fact in the endgame - you very much need to still be a viable Demon candidate in final three or your chances aren’t great! This might be a good reason to vote for yourself on the penultimate day - yes your ability goes out of play, but it’s an execution on someone who isn’t your Demon and it leaves three Demon candidates on the final day, not just two.
  • Control the narrative. Try to organize the entire town to execute people you think would be good to execute. The good team’s only hope of executing is by working together as they can't see who is voting for what, so try to get them voting on the same page as you.
  • Promise dead players you will vote with them and then don't do so. Any ghost votes that get used and wasted early or mid-game on anyone that's not the Demon are a success for you.

Fighting the Organ Grinder

  • Discuss your nominations before making them. It is more likely for a vote to go through if all good players fully understand the accusation and logic before the nomination is made and other players might be able to contribute information towards a nomination that you can try to rally people behind.
  • Make your intent to vote clear early! It’s a natural instinct in Clocktower to want to watch the other votes as they go round in order to inform your own, so you may not speak up earlier to not lock yourself into voting one way or the other. In an Organ Grinder game, though, you can’t see the votes and you want to coordinate, so it’s worth letting people know you intend to vote so they know it’s potentially worth voting with you.
  • Conversely, make your intent not to vote clear as well! If you think you probably got enough votes on someone who feels like the best execution for the day, publicly announce you won’t be voting for anyone else as you think that person is the best choice. Encourage others to consider the same position - after all when you don’t know the results of a vote, fewer nominations means fewer chances to accidentally tie…
  • Pay attention to which players say they are voting on executions that seem to get beaten or fail. Evil will be saying they’re voting on things that they aren’t and not voting on things that they are.
  • If you’re reasonably confident who the Organ Grinder is, maybe don’t bother nominating them. That’s one player that’s definitely not the Demon and having them go to the final 3 gives you a 50/50 choice between the other two!
  • Save your ghost vote for the final day, so you know it's making an impact. Amongst other things, Organ Grinders often want to die before the final day if they've been outed, so it's quite possible if you hold your ghost vote to the final day you might get to use it with your eyes open. Even if you don't get to keep your eyes open, it is still the day with your best odds of getting the Demon successfully.
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