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Vizier and Ogre: Difference between pages

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(Difference between pages)
(Created page with "__NOTOC__ <div class="row"> <div class="small-12 large-3 large-push-9 columns" style='margin: 0 auto; text-align: center'> <div id='character-details'> 250px <span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 10px;">Information</span> <table style="width: 90%; margin: 0 auto;"> <tr> <td>Type</td> <td>Minion</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Artist</t...")
 
 
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<div id='character-details'>
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[[File:icon_vizier.png|250px]]
[[File:icon_ogre.png|250px]]
<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 10px;">Information</span>
<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 10px;">Information</span>


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<tr>
<tr>
<td>Type</td>
<td>Type</td>
<td>[[Character Types #Minion|Minion]]</td>
<td>[[Character Types #Outsider|Outsider]]</td>
</tr>
</tr>
<tr>
<tr>
<td>Artist</td>
<td>Revealed</td>
<td>Chloe Mcdougall</td>
<td>23/05/2024</td>
</tr>
</tr>
</table>
</table>


<p class='flavour'>“An excellent decision, as always, sire. Such a petty crime as bumping into the Bishop indeed deserves your ‘justice’ and ‘mercy’. Take a stroll in the gardens. Visit the gallery and peruse the sculptures of Von Strauf. Relax, sire. Leave everything… to me.”</p>
<p class='flavour'>"&lt;grunt&gt;&lt;grin&gt;&lt;/grunt&gt;"</p>


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== Summary ==
== Summary ==
" All players know who you are. You can not die during the day. If good voted, you may choose to execute immediately.”
"On your 1st night, choose a player (not yourself): you become their alignment (you don't know which) even if drunk or poisoned.”


The Vizier executes players without the town’s consent.
The Ogre is someone's best friend.
* On the first day, all players learn that the Vizier is in play, and which player it is.
* The Ogre's chosen player does not change, even if the Ogre is drunk or poisoned when they chose.
* During the day, the Vizier can not die by any means.
* The Ogre becomes the same alignment as their chosen player immediately on the first night, even if the Ogre is drunk or poisoned.
* After a vote is tallied, if the Vizier chooses to execute the nominee (and at least one good player voted), they are executed immediately. This counts as the 1 execution allowed each day.
* The Ogre is not told their alignment at the beginning of the game.
* After a vote is tallied, if the Vizier chooses to execute the nominee (and no good players voted), nothing happens.
* If the Ogre changes alignment by other means, the Ogre learns their new alignment, as normal.
* Even if the vote tally is less than 50% of the living players, the Vizier may still execute. Even if another player has more votes than the current player, the Vizier may still execute.
* If an Ogre is created mid-game, the Ogre chooses a player that night, and becomes their alignment.
* The Vizier does not have to force an execution each day.
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== How to Run ==
== How to Run ==
When the first night has ended, declare that the Vizier is in play, and which player it is.
During the first night, wake the Ogre. The Ogre points to a player. Put the Ogre to sleep. If the Ogre pointed to an evil player, flip the Ogre's character token upside down to represent that the Ogre is evil.
If a vote has just been tallied, and one or more good players voted, and the Vizier declares that the nominee is executed, that player is executed and dies. No more nominations, votes, or executions occur today. </div>
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<div class='example'>
<div class='example'>
The {{Good|King}} has been nominated. Five people vote, but the {{Evil|Vizier}} does not use their ability. The {{Evil|Boomdandy}} is nominated and eight people vote. The {{Evil|Vizier}} uses their ability and the {{Evil|Boomdandy}} is executed immediately.
On the first night, the Ogre chooses the {{Evil|Summoner}}. The Ogre becomes evil, and stays evil for the rest of the game.  
</div>
</div>


<div class='example'>
<div class='example'>
The Demon has seven votes against them, and is “about to die”. The {{Evil|Vizier}} nominates Bill, the {{Good|Barber}}. Two evil players and one good player vote. The {{Evil|Vizier}} declares that Bill is executed. The Demon survives today.
On the first night, the Ogre chooses the {{Good|Banshee}}. The Ogre stays good. On the third night, the {{Evil|Mezepheles}} turns the {{Good|Banshee}} evil. The Ogre remains good.
</div>
<div class='example'>
The town nominates and executes the {{Evil|Vizier}}. The {{Evil|Vizier}} does not die. That night, The Demon kills the {{Evil|Vizier}}.
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== Tips & Tricks ==
== Tips & Tricks ==
* To state the obvious – execute people! At the end of the day your ability is to execute whoever you feel like executing, so there’s no point not using it. Execute with abandon, execute with joy, execute with whimsy!
* The Ogre is in an interesting position compared to other players, as you do not learn your starting alignment, but you do know whose team you’re playing for. It is to your advantage to tell your friend that you’ve picked them early, and be honest with them, so they believe you. If you’re having this conversation publicly, your aim is to convince the group that you are aligned with your friend; if you’re having this conversation privately, your aim is to scheme together and come up with a game plan.
* Don’t always execute! Good players will be reading into your execution choices and denials as a source of information, so the players you choose not to execute are often just as important as those you do choose to execute.
* If your friend does not believe you, be persistent. Assure them that you’re telling the truth, and seek out characters that detect alignment, such as the Chef, to make your argument even more compelling.
* Who votes when you execute is easy to comprehend information for the good team too. If you execute with only one vote, that player is confirmed to be good and you can’t expect to have an opportunity to vote on them later as good players don’t have an incentive to put even a single vote on them.
* It can be fun (and useful) to tell your friend the truth, and lie to everyone else. If you are good, and the evil team doesn’t know who your friend is, evil may be more likely to leave your friend alone. If you are evil, and the good team doesn’t know who your friend is, good players may find it more difficult to explain what’s happening in the game.
* Everyone knows who you are so don’t obviously talk to your evil team – you don’t need a bluff because everyone knows who you are so you can’t really claim anything else most of the time, so there’s only so much you need to talk to your fellow evils anyway.
* Instead of telling your friend that you’ve chosen them, it can be useful to just watch them for a few days. You might be able to identify their (and your) alignment by seeing who they speak to, who they vote for, and who they seem to trust.
* Talk to everyone! Even good players should appreciate a chance to see how you’re thinking and try to get a social read on your plans and you can talk to your evil team in the process to catch up with them too.
* Vote the same as your friend! If your friend is evil, they will vote in a way that helps your team; if your friend is good, they are likely to vote in a way that they believe helps your team.  
* Trust your social reads and the hints dropped in town square – these are probably the main way you’re going to get information!
* Never vote for your friend. They may be good. They may be evil. You don’t know. But either way, if they die, you have just killed a teammate.
* Whispering to your fellow evil players at night if they’re sat next to you is one of the only ways you can talk to your compatriots to get any information and learn what’s happening from an evil perspective, without throwing shade on them by extension.
* Tell multiple people that you’ve picked them, to see how they react and to hide where your true friend lies. Since you don’t know what team you’re playing for, it can’t hurt to be a little chaotic… right?
* You need cover and a strategy for why you don’t execute any given player – at some point you’ll need to not execute if your Demon gets voted on so having set up plausible deniability beforehand as to certain people aren’t being executed is important.
* If your friend starts acting funny, and there are alignment-changing characters on the script, assume the worst - your friend may have joined the enemy! If you’re concerned that your friend no longer shares your alignment, you may want to limit how much you share with them, and look for other sources of information, like an Empath or an Artist, that can help verify your - or their - current alignment.  
* If all else fails, assume that you are good (the odds are in your favour).
* If someone is claiming to be the Ogre, the person they are claiming to have picked is almost always a good player. Either that player is really a good Ogre who is aligned with the friend, or that player is evil and bluffing Ogre, in which case they are more likely to have picked a good player as their imaginary friend.
* Get your friend to reveal everything they know - you don’t get information, so you’ll have to rely on other characters to share crucial information in the game. The only information that you will be close to sure of will come from your friend, so treat them well and request that they tell you everything that they know. Let them know that the more that they tell you, the more convinced you are that they are good, and the more that you will be able to help the good team. If your friend is evil and tells you everything that they know, then even better.
* If you are good and a player claims to be your Ogre, it is usually best to tell them what you know. Either they are good, and deserve to know what you know, or they are evil, and know the most important information about who is who already. Lie, or don’t tell your Ogre anything, if you want to test to see if they are really the Ogre.
 
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== Fighting the Vizier ==
== Bluffing as the Ogre ==
* The Vizier is a great source of information for the good team about who is good. Extracting that information from who counted as good for the Vizier to execute using their vote is often tricky, but absolutely worthwhile. The best info is obviously if the Vizier executes with only 1 vote, as that player is confirmed good, but in later days if they execute with only 3 or 4 votes, that’s still good information.
* Commit to whatever player that you pretend to have picked. Commit to your ‘friend’. If you picked the Empath, pretend to believe the Empath information all game. If you picked the Saint, do whatever you can to prevent the good team from executing the Saint. You never know when your ‘friend’ will be proven good. If you picked the Banshee, for example, and the Banshee gets killed by the Demon at night, you will have wanted to be friendly and convincing to the Banshee for as long as possible beforehand.
* Pay just as much attention to who the Vizier chooses not to force the execution on as those that they do execute. The Vizier can’t just hit the first nomination of every day, or the Demon will eventually be nominated and they’ll be struggling to explain why they’re not executing, so they’ll need some subtlety as to who they execute. You need to try to see through that subtlety to find out their true limitations of who they’re willing to execute!
* Pick a strong player. Someone that the good team is likely to trust, listen to, and defer to. With a strong, reliable player as your friend, the good team will likely keep you alive too.  
* You know the Vizier is not the Demon. They’re evil, so they will affect abilities that detect alignment, but they also aren’t the Demon and don’t have to be factored into any other information and can be avoided by selection characters.
* You don’t need to say which player you picked straight away. Sometimes, waiting a few days can be useful. Waiting until you can claim to have befriended a confirmed good player before coming out as the Ogre will be less believable for some, but for those that do believe you, that confirms in their mind that you are good.
* On the final day, if the Vizier is still alive, one single good vote on the non-Demon player is all the Vizier needs to win the game. However, you have some strong information to convince your fellow good players – if the player you’re accusing is not the Demon, the Vizier would already have pushed through their execution and won the game, so the fact the Vizier isn’t forcing that execution means that you can’t afford to have anyone good vote on anyone else.  
* Pick someone fun! Clocktower doesn’t need to be serious. The Ogre is a character that works better the more fun you are having, so picking someone that you have rapport with, someone who will enjoy your company for the entire game, will probably result in you having the confidence to convince the good team that you are the Ogre.  
* Make sure that any abilities that take place during the day are used before nominations are open. Once nominations open, the day might end at any moment from a Vizier forcing an execution through, so you will need to find time to use any daytime abilities before that.
* Pick a character that you think will survive a long time. Characters like the Mayor or General, tend to have an easier time surviving until the final day. Whether the claimed Ogre is good or evil, it is usually in the good team’s interest to kill both of you, or keep both of you alive until the final day.  
* Keep in mind that nominations are your main weapon against the Vizier – choosing not to nominate again if the Vizier hasn’t forced an execution may be the best way to put through votes on people they’d have preferred not to execute.
* If all else fails, you can befriend a player that you want to die. Maybe that Undertaker or High Priestess are really causing problems? Publicly pretend to be their lovely Ogre friend, and play badly. The good team may kill both of you, which will take two days and result in another two deaths at night. This way, four players die, including the one you wanted to. This strategy is recommended for Townsfolk, Outsiders, and Minions, but not Demons.
* Take advantage of good abilities that interact with execution and death and try to trick the Vizier into confirmation of those characters. A {{Good|Tea Lady}}, for example, is strongly confirmable if the Vizier tries to execute their neighbours a couple of times and they do not die from the execution.
* Don't tell anybody who your friend is. Mentally choose a player and vote whenever they vote, just like you are their Butler, but wait until the late game to let the town know who your friend is.
* Whispering to or “accidentally” revealing information to the Vizier can throw off their executions – remember they only have as much information as they’ve managed to clean when everyone knows they’re evil, so if you can set it up to “leak” information that they can overhear to inform their executions, you can completely mislead them as to the game state.
* Pick a quieter player. Being a friend isn’t just a game term. Quieter players tend to want one or two players that they will trust for the whole game, as opposed to louder players who want more conversations and a more complicated trust diagram. Befriending a quieter player can have them protecting you for the whole game. Sneaky.
* Be very purposeful in who you vote on. Every time the Vizier chooses to execute, it gives you information, but also every time they don’t choose to execute, that tells you a little bit too. Trying to manipulate the Vizier into executing certain people can give you a lot of information that they weren’t necessarily intending to reveal to you.
* Wait a few days and pick a dead player to befriend. If you can convince them to use their vote foolishly, that weighs the game in your favour.
* Pick someone who can't handle it. Having one player give you undivided attention for the whole game, who needs to know everything that you know, can be stressful! But it is a good stress! Someone who will lose their mind having you smiling at them for an hour, not knowing whether you are good or evil, can be fun. At least for you.
* Pick an evil player as your friend. This is risky, since the good team will be assuming that you are on the same team, even though they don’t know which team that you are on. But assuming this information can lead the good team into logical inconsistencies if they assume that you are both good. Make sure that you and your evil friend’s fake information makes sense.
* Pick a random good player as your friend. Since evil players know the other evil players, this is easy to do. It is also the most common option for real Ogres, just due to chance. Doing the common thing makes you look good, and builds trust between you and your friend.
* Follow your friend’s lead. Tell your friend everything that good players tell you. Since real Ogres don’t know anything other than which player is on the same team as them, real Ogres tend to defer to the judgements of their friend. Do the same. At some point in the game, you will want to betray your friend, either by a wayward vote or a brilliant double cross, but once that happens you will be known to be evil, so wait until late in the game.
* Pick multiple people, tell each of them that you are their Ogre friend, but also tell each of them to not tell anyone else. This will backfire eventually, but you can get several players making poor voting decisions in the meantime.
* If you are evil and a good player claims to be your Ogre, be wary about telling them that you are evil. They may be lying about being the Ogre. Having an evil Ogre that believes everything you tell them can be unusually helpful, but having a pretend Ogre that is actually a good Townsfolk is disastrous if they find out that you are evil..  


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[[Category:Experimental Characters]]
[[Category:Experimental Characters]]
[[Category:Minion]]
[[Category:Outsider]]

Revision as of 22:59, 23 May 2024

Icon ogre.png Information

Type Outsider
Revealed 23/05/2024

"<grunt><grin></grunt>"

Summary

"On your 1st night, choose a player (not yourself): you become their alignment (you don't know which) even if drunk or poisoned.”

The Ogre is someone's best friend.

  • The Ogre's chosen player does not change, even if the Ogre is drunk or poisoned when they chose.
  • The Ogre becomes the same alignment as their chosen player immediately on the first night, even if the Ogre is drunk or poisoned.
  • The Ogre is not told their alignment at the beginning of the game.
  • If the Ogre changes alignment by other means, the Ogre learns their new alignment, as normal.
  • If an Ogre is created mid-game, the Ogre chooses a player that night, and becomes their alignment.

How to Run

During the first night, wake the Ogre. The Ogre points to a player. Put the Ogre to sleep. If the Ogre pointed to an evil player, flip the Ogre's character token upside down to represent that the Ogre is evil.

Examples

On the first night, the Ogre chooses the Summoner. The Ogre becomes evil, and stays evil for the rest of the game.

On the first night, the Ogre chooses the Banshee. The Ogre stays good. On the third night, the Mezepheles turns the Banshee evil. The Ogre remains good.

Tips & Tricks

  • The Ogre is in an interesting position compared to other players, as you do not learn your starting alignment, but you do know whose team you’re playing for. It is to your advantage to tell your friend that you’ve picked them early, and be honest with them, so they believe you. If you’re having this conversation publicly, your aim is to convince the group that you are aligned with your friend; if you’re having this conversation privately, your aim is to scheme together and come up with a game plan.
  • If your friend does not believe you, be persistent. Assure them that you’re telling the truth, and seek out characters that detect alignment, such as the Chef, to make your argument even more compelling.
  • It can be fun (and useful) to tell your friend the truth, and lie to everyone else. If you are good, and the evil team doesn’t know who your friend is, evil may be more likely to leave your friend alone. If you are evil, and the good team doesn’t know who your friend is, good players may find it more difficult to explain what’s happening in the game.
  • Instead of telling your friend that you’ve chosen them, it can be useful to just watch them for a few days. You might be able to identify their (and your) alignment by seeing who they speak to, who they vote for, and who they seem to trust.
  • Vote the same as your friend! If your friend is evil, they will vote in a way that helps your team; if your friend is good, they are likely to vote in a way that they believe helps your team.
  • Never vote for your friend. They may be good. They may be evil. You don’t know. But either way, if they die, you have just killed a teammate.
  • Tell multiple people that you’ve picked them, to see how they react and to hide where your true friend lies. Since you don’t know what team you’re playing for, it can’t hurt to be a little chaotic… right?
  • If your friend starts acting funny, and there are alignment-changing characters on the script, assume the worst - your friend may have joined the enemy! If you’re concerned that your friend no longer shares your alignment, you may want to limit how much you share with them, and look for other sources of information, like an Empath or an Artist, that can help verify your - or their - current alignment.
  • If all else fails, assume that you are good (the odds are in your favour).
  • If someone is claiming to be the Ogre, the person they are claiming to have picked is almost always a good player. Either that player is really a good Ogre who is aligned with the friend, or that player is evil and bluffing Ogre, in which case they are more likely to have picked a good player as their imaginary friend.
  • Get your friend to reveal everything they know - you don’t get information, so you’ll have to rely on other characters to share crucial information in the game. The only information that you will be close to sure of will come from your friend, so treat them well and request that they tell you everything that they know. Let them know that the more that they tell you, the more convinced you are that they are good, and the more that you will be able to help the good team. If your friend is evil and tells you everything that they know, then even better.
  • If you are good and a player claims to be your Ogre, it is usually best to tell them what you know. Either they are good, and deserve to know what you know, or they are evil, and know the most important information about who is who already. Lie, or don’t tell your Ogre anything, if you want to test to see if they are really the Ogre.

Bluffing as the Ogre

  • Commit to whatever player that you pretend to have picked. Commit to your ‘friend’. If you picked the Empath, pretend to believe the Empath information all game. If you picked the Saint, do whatever you can to prevent the good team from executing the Saint. You never know when your ‘friend’ will be proven good. If you picked the Banshee, for example, and the Banshee gets killed by the Demon at night, you will have wanted to be friendly and convincing to the Banshee for as long as possible beforehand.
  • Pick a strong player. Someone that the good team is likely to trust, listen to, and defer to. With a strong, reliable player as your friend, the good team will likely keep you alive too.
  • You don’t need to say which player you picked straight away. Sometimes, waiting a few days can be useful. Waiting until you can claim to have befriended a confirmed good player before coming out as the Ogre will be less believable for some, but for those that do believe you, that confirms in their mind that you are good.
  • Pick someone fun! Clocktower doesn’t need to be serious. The Ogre is a character that works better the more fun you are having, so picking someone that you have rapport with, someone who will enjoy your company for the entire game, will probably result in you having the confidence to convince the good team that you are the Ogre.
  • Pick a character that you think will survive a long time. Characters like the Mayor or General, tend to have an easier time surviving until the final day. Whether the claimed Ogre is good or evil, it is usually in the good team’s interest to kill both of you, or keep both of you alive until the final day.
  • If all else fails, you can befriend a player that you want to die. Maybe that Undertaker or High Priestess are really causing problems? Publicly pretend to be their lovely Ogre friend, and play badly. The good team may kill both of you, which will take two days and result in another two deaths at night. This way, four players die, including the one you wanted to. This strategy is recommended for Townsfolk, Outsiders, and Minions, but not Demons.
  • Don't tell anybody who your friend is. Mentally choose a player and vote whenever they vote, just like you are their Butler, but wait until the late game to let the town know who your friend is.
  • Pick a quieter player. Being a friend isn’t just a game term. Quieter players tend to want one or two players that they will trust for the whole game, as opposed to louder players who want more conversations and a more complicated trust diagram. Befriending a quieter player can have them protecting you for the whole game. Sneaky.
  • Wait a few days and pick a dead player to befriend. If you can convince them to use their vote foolishly, that weighs the game in your favour.
  • Pick someone who can't handle it. Having one player give you undivided attention for the whole game, who needs to know everything that you know, can be stressful! But it is a good stress! Someone who will lose their mind having you smiling at them for an hour, not knowing whether you are good or evil, can be fun. At least for you.
  • Pick an evil player as your friend. This is risky, since the good team will be assuming that you are on the same team, even though they don’t know which team that you are on. But assuming this information can lead the good team into logical inconsistencies if they assume that you are both good. Make sure that you and your evil friend’s fake information makes sense.
  • Pick a random good player as your friend. Since evil players know the other evil players, this is easy to do. It is also the most common option for real Ogres, just due to chance. Doing the common thing makes you look good, and builds trust between you and your friend.
  • Follow your friend’s lead. Tell your friend everything that good players tell you. Since real Ogres don’t know anything other than which player is on the same team as them, real Ogres tend to defer to the judgements of their friend. Do the same. At some point in the game, you will want to betray your friend, either by a wayward vote or a brilliant double cross, but once that happens you will be known to be evil, so wait until late in the game.
  • Pick multiple people, tell each of them that you are their Ogre friend, but also tell each of them to not tell anyone else. This will backfire eventually, but you can get several players making poor voting decisions in the meantime.
  • If you are evil and a good player claims to be your Ogre, be wary about telling them that you are evil. They may be lying about being the Ogre. Having an evil Ogre that believes everything you tell them can be unusually helpful, but having a pretend Ogre that is actually a good Townsfolk is disastrous if they find out that you are evil..