Engineer and General: Difference between pages

Revision as of 16:07, 5 March 2023

"I don’t have time for quotes."

Information

Type

Townsfolk

The General knows who is winning.

Character Text

"Each night, you learn which alignment the Storyteller believes is winning: good, evil, or neither."

Examples

There are 5 good players alive and 4 evil players alive. Even though the Demon is very suspicious and will probably be executed next, there is a Scarlet Woman in play, who is very trustworthy. The Storyteller gives a thumbs down.

The Good team has a lot of information, and believes that their false information is indeed false. The only Minion is dead. The Storyteller gives a thumbs up.

The Po is a very experienced player and is coordinating well with the Minions. The Monk is successfully protecting the Savant each night and the good team have correctly identified several good players. However, the Po will probably kill 3 times tomorrow night, so it is anyone’s game. The Storyteller gives a thumbs to the side.

Tips & Tricks

Keep in mind that your role interacts with the personal opinion of the Storyteller. This opinion will inevitably be influenced by more than just mechanics. Does your group of players include someone who is widely regarded as a very cunning evil player? Perhaps you have someone in your game who is considerably more experienced than others? What are the strategies and tactics that your Storyteller considers to be most effective? These things, and many more, can and will influence your information each night.

Think about the events that have occurred each day/night and try to imagine how they may have altered the balance of play. Did you execute someone the day before learning that the good team is now winning? Perhaps that person was evil and that is why the Storyteller believes things have shifted in your favor. Maybe they were getting misinformation and their death has now hurt the evil team’s chances of selling a lie.

Take note of how your information changes from night to night. If you can survive long enough, you will essentially have a line graph showing how the good team’s fortunes have altered over the course of play. On the final day, you can use this knowledge to corroborate the claims of the remaining players.

Pay attention to what other players are saying, particularly group consensus. If the group is confident that certain players are evil and should be executed tomorrow, and those players are actually evil, then the Storyteller is likely to tell you that the good team is winning, even if there are more dead good players than evil. Similarly, if the group is vocally very trusting of several good players and their information, then the Storyteller is likely to tell you that good is winning. If the good team is vocally distrusting of good players and keen to execute them, while being trusting of evil players and isn't planning on executing them, the Storyteller will likely tell you that evil is winning.

If your information changes from "good is winning" to "evil is winning", or vice versa, over the course of two nights, this is extremely useful. Something drastic has happened, something that you should be able to guess. Information that changes to or from "neither team is winning" isn't nearly as helpful. For example, learning that "good is winning" on night 2 to "neither team is winning" on night 3, indicates a subtle change that will be more difficult to guess as to its cause.

If you consistently get information that the good team is winning, let the good team know. Even telling them "I don't know what we are doing right, but let's keep doing what we are doing" is helpful, because you know you are on the right track, even if you don't know the details. Be wary of any player that drastically tries to change the groups's main narrative, or suddenly advocates for the execution of a new player.

If you consistently get information that the evil team is winning, let the good team know, and take immediate, contradictory action. If the evil team has been winning, try something, anything new, and convince the group to go along with it. Even if that Librarian who is trusted by everybody and confirmed as good by the Empath is making complete sense, if you and the group spend the day assuming that they are lying, evil, or drunk, then the Storyteller may decide that the good team is now "winning" (or even that "neither team is winning") and tell you so tonight. Anything is better than letting the evil team continue to win day after day, so it may be wise to take action that is counterintuitive or explore ideas that seem unreasonable or doubt information that seems confirmed. The worst that can happen is that the Storyteller continues to tell you that evil is winning, while the best that can happen is that the Storyteller tells you that good is now winning - either way, you learn something important. The Demon might kill you at night before you can learn this, however, so if you can sway the overall beliefs and intention of the group without revealing that you are doing so, all the better.

Bluffing as the General

When bluffing as the General, there are a few things you should keep in mind:

Keep the good team nice and paranoid by repeatedly claiming that you’ve been informed that the good team is losing.

Frame a dead good player by stating that, after their execution, the Storyteller told you that the good team is now winning.

Try to make the good players doubt their information by stating that you’re being told that the good team is losing, but you can’t figure out why. This is especially effective if you know, for a fact, that the good team is getting large amounts of very useful, correct information.

If you think evil is winning, even slightly, consistently tell the group that the good team is winning. Never say that neither team is winning. If the good team consistently believes that they are winning when they are not, they should continue to believe what they believe and not change their suspicions to new players. On the final day, believing that they have made correct decisions and wise judgments the whole game, they will likely execute the wrong player based on wrong information. Encourage their overconfidence.

To give more damaging misinformation, at the expense of being less trustworthy, give information that fluctuates wildly between "good is winning" and "evil is winning". This implies that the group is making big decisions that are swinging the game one way then another, and will have the effect of the good team incorrectly analysing their past assumptions and actions. However, if your information is too wild and doesn't seem to match up plausibly with past actions, they may disbelieve you and execute you. As such, this strategy is better for Minions.

To be more trustworthy, at the expense of giving less harmful misinformation, never fluctuate between saying "good is winning" and "evil is winning" on consecutive nights. Have at least one night where you claim to have been told that "neither team is winning" so that the jump from one team winning to the other seems less drastic, and more the result of gradual change over several days. This gradual change from one team winning to another is more likely in reality, so there is a greater chance that the good team will believe that you are the General. However, this is less impactful on the good team's decisions, or at least will take more time. As such, this strategy is better for Demons.

Whenever something significant happens in the game, such as the good team campaigning for and very nearly executing a public Goblin, or the Undertaker telling the group that a Scarlet Woman must be in play because the Demon was just executed, or the Virgin causing a player to be executed, or waking up to find that the player that died is suddenly claiming to be the Klutz, drastically change which team you say is winning. Presumably, up until this point, you've been spreading false information about which team is winning. After a major event, it makes complete sense for the General to learn that a new team is winning. Play into the good team's beliefs, and take the opportunity to feed them even more dramatic false information.

@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 <div id='character-details'>
-[[File:icon_engineer.png|250px]]
+[[File:icon_general.png|250px]]
-<p class='flavour'>"If it bends, great. If it breaks, well, it probably needed fixing anyway."</p>
+<p class='flavour'>"I don’t have time for quotes."</p>
 <span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 10px;">Information</span>
@@ Line 20: / Line 20: @@
 <div class="small-12 large-9 large-pull-3 columns">
-The Engineer manufactures the threat that the town faces.
+The General knows who is winning.
 __TOC__
@@ Line 26: / Line 26: @@
 == Character Text ==
-"Once per game, at night, choose which Minions or which Demon is in play."
+"Each night, you learn which alignment the Storyteller believes is winning: good, evil, or neither."
 <br><br>
@@ Line 34: / Line 34: @@
 <div class='example'>
-On the second night, the Engineer chooses that the Demon is a {{Evil|Lleech}}. Lewis, who was the {{Evil|Imp}}, is now the {{Evil|Lleech}}.
+There are 5 good players alive and 4 evil players alive. Even though the Demon is very suspicious and will probably be executed next, there is a {{Evil|Scarlet Woman}} in play, who is very trustworthy. The Storyteller gives a thumbs down.
 </div>
 <div class='example'>
-On the first night, the Engineer changes the {{Evil|Baron}} into the {{Evil|Boomdandy}}. There are still an extra two Outsiders in play.
+The Good team has a lot of information, and believes that their false information is indeed false. The only Minion is dead. The Storyteller gives a thumbs up.
 </div>
 <div class='example'>
-The {{Evil|Fearmonger}} and the {{Evil|Psychopath}} are in play, and causing havoc. The Engineer chooses that the {{Evil|Mezepheles}} and the {{Evil|Spy}} are in play. The Storyteller chooses to change the {{Evil|Fearmonger}} into the {{Evil|Mezepheles}} and the {{Evil|Pyschopath}} into the {{Evil|Spy}}.
+The {{Evil|Po}} is a very experienced player and is coordinating well with the Minions. The {{Good|Monk}} is successfully protecting the {{Good|Savant}} each night and the good team have correctly identified several good players. However, the {{Evil|Po}} will probably kill 3 times tomorrow night, so it is anyone’s game. The Storyteller gives a thumbs to the side.
-</div>
-<div class='example'>
-The {{Evil|Spy}}, {{Evil|Assassin}}, and {{Evil|Witch}} are in play. The Engineer chooses that the {{Evil|Spy}}, {{Evil|Assassin}} and {{Evil|Mezepheles}} are in play. The {{Evil|Witch}} turns into the {{Evil|Mezepheles}}.
 </div>
@@ Line 53: / Line 49: @@
 == Tips & Tricks ==
-* If you are the Engineer, you can broadly accomplish one of four things: deciding which Minions are in play, deciding which Minions are not in play, deciding which Demon is in play, deciding which Demon is not in play.
+* Keep in mind that your role interacts with the personal opinion of the Storyteller. This opinion will inevitably be influenced by more than just mechanics. Does your group of players include someone who is widely regarded as a very cunning evil player? Perhaps you have someone in your game who is considerably more experienced than others? What are the strategies and tactics that your Storyteller considers to be most effective? These things, and many more, can and will influence your information each night.
-* If you want to choose which Minions are in play, this lets you and the entire good team know what you are facing. This can be crucial information. Knowing that there is a {{Evil|Goblin}} or {{Evil|Boomdandy}} is in play at least means that you need to be wary on who to execute. Knowing that a {{Evil|Spy}} or {{Evil|Widow}} is in play means that you and all the good players should reveal who you are, honestly, as soon as possible. Knowing what you are up against means that you can plan your strategy accordingly. Similarly, choosing which Demon is in play allows you to plan what to do. Knowing that a {{Evil|Vortox}} is in play means the good team must reverse their information, that it can not be true, for example.
-* If you want to choose which Minions are not in play, simply choose the other Minions to be in play instead. If you want to avoid poisoning, then choosing characters other than the {{Evil|Poisoner}} may guarantee it. If your group is particularly susceptible to the {{Evil|Mastermind}} then you can make sure that you don't have to think about it by changing all Minions to other characters instead. Similarly, if you don't know what Demon you do want in play, but there is one Demon in particular that you definitely do NOT want in play, choose to turn the Demon into this character. You will still be facing a powerful adversary, but not the most feared adversary.
-* To prevent the evil team (or the good team!) killing you before you use your ability, use your ability on the first night. This guarantees that you will get to act. The downside to acting this early is that you miss out on the group discussion, and any pertinent information that may influence your decision, like which good characters are in play and which evil characters that they are particularly suited at combatting.
+* Think about the events that have occurred each day/night and try to imagine how they may have altered the balance of play. Did you execute someone the day before learning that the good team is now winning? Perhaps that person was evil and that is why the Storyteller believes things have shifted in your favor. Maybe they were getting misinformation and their death has now hurt the evil team’s chances of selling a lie.
-* To choose the most ideal Minions or Demon to create, wait until the second or third night, and generate as much discussion as you can in the meantime. To make the best decision possible, you'll need to know as many good characters that are in play, so that their particular abilities can be used to the full, such as creating a {{Evil|Vigormortis}} to help the {{Good|Oracle}} detect evil players, or creating a {{Evil|Goblin}} if there is a {{Traveler|Voudon}} in play you are fairly certain that the dead players are all good.
+* Take note of how your information changes from night to night. If you can survive long enough, you will essentially have a line graph showing how the good team’s fortunes have altered over the course of play. On the final day, you can use this knowledge to corroborate the claims of the remaining players.
-* Timing can be crucial for the Engineer. Some evil abilities can be entirely negated by you acting at the right time. For example, if you turn the {{Evil|Mezepheles}} into the {{Evil|Devil's Advocate}} on the night that the {{Evil|Mezepheles}} was due to turn a player evil, that player will stay good. If you turn the {{Evil|Devil's Advocate}} into the {{Evil|Mezepheles}} on the final night, then you guarantee that the final day will continue without the Demon being safe from execution AND prevent the {{Evil|Mezepheles}} from using their ability (since there are no more nights).
+* Pay attention to what other players are saying, particularly group consensus. If the group is confident that certain players are evil and should be executed tomorrow, and those players are actually evil, then the Storyteller is likely to tell you that the good team is winning, even if there are more dead good players than evil. Similarly, if the group is vocally very trusting of several good players and their information, then the Storyteller is likely to tell you that good is winning. If the good team is vocally distrusting of good players and keen to execute them, while being trusting of evil players and isn't planning on executing them, the Storyteller will likely tell you that evil is winning.
-* Creating an obvious Demon or Minion in the middle of the game may confirm your identity as the Engineer. A surprise {{Evil|Fearmonger}} or {{Evil|Evil Twin}} will get the good team trusting you, since those characters didn't seem to exist the previous day, but they may not be the Minions that the good team really wants to face. Be careful when balancing the benefit of your glowing reputation as a good player with the benefit of facing the most ideal Minions and Demons.
+* If your information changes from "good is winning" to "evil is winning", or vice versa, over the course of two nights, this is extremely useful. Something drastic has happened, something that you should be able to guess. Information that changes to or from "neither team is winning" isn't nearly as helpful. For example, learning that "good is winning" on night 2 to "neither team is winning" on night 3, indicates a subtle change that will be more difficult to guess as to its cause.
-* Don't be afraid to create character that add Outsiders in square brackets, like [this]. Square brackets indicate to the Storyteller what tokens to add or remove during the game setup, and won't influence what happens in the middle of the game. If you add a {{Evil|Baron}}, then two Outsiders will not be added.
+* If you consistently get information that the good team is winning, let the good team know. Even telling them "I don't know what we are doing right, but let's keep doing what we are doing" is helpful, because you know you are on the right track, even if you don't know the details. Be wary of any player that drastically tries to change the groups's main narrative, or suddenly advocates for the execution of a new player.
-* How much discussion you generate about your ability is up to you. Too much discussion, and the Demon may kill you that night, preventing you from using your ability. Too little, and the group may get suspicious that you didn't involve them in the decision.
+* If you consistently get information that the evil team is winning, let the good team know, and take immediate, contradictory action. If the evil team has been winning, try something, anything new, and convince the group to go along with it. Even if that {{Good|Librarian}} who is trusted by everybody and confirmed as good by the {{Good|Empath}} is making complete sense, if you and the group spend the day assuming that they are lying, evil, or drunk, then the Storyteller may decide that the good team is now "winning" (or even that "neither team is winning") and tell you so tonight. Anything is better than letting the evil team continue to win day after day, so it may be wise to take action that is counterintuitive or explore ideas that seem unreasonable or doubt information that seems confirmed. The worst that can happen is that the Storyteller continues to tell you that evil is winning, while the best that can happen is that the Storyteller tells you that good is now winning - either way, you learn something important. The Demon might kill you at night before you can learn this, however, so if you can sway the overall beliefs and intention of the group without revealing that you are doing so, all the better.
 <br>
-== Bluffing as the Engineer==
+== Bluffing as the General ==
-When bluffing as the {{Good|Engineer}}, there are a few things you should keep in mind:
+When bluffing as the {{Good|General}}, there are a few things you should keep in mind:
-* The easiest way to bluff as the Engineer is to say that you have created the character that you actually are. If you are the {{Evil|Poisoner}} say that you have created a {{Evil|Poisoner}}. If you are the {{Evil|Shabaloth}} then say that you have created a {{Evil|Shabaloth}}. You may need to do this on the first or second night, before the good team discusses and insists that you choose a particular character, as they may not choose the character you want them to choose!
+* Keep the good team nice and paranoid by repeatedly claiming that you’ve been informed that the good team is losing.
-* Make sure that you tell the group that you have created a character that doesn't have an obvious tell. If you claim that you have created an {{Evil|Al-Hadikhia}} and yet there is no {{Evil|Al-Hadikhia}} acting at night, you'll have some pretty serious explaining to do. But if you say that you have created a {{Evil|Pukka}} then it is much harder for the group to tell whether you are lying or not, assuming that the real Demon is an {{Evil|Imp}} or {{Evil|Fang Gu}} or similar and is NOT a character like the {{Evil|Al-Hadikhia}} to contradict that information.
+* Frame a dead good player by stating that, after their execution, the Storyteller told you that the good team is now winning.
-* If all the evil characters on the script don't have an obvious tell, then feel free to generate as much discussion as you can as to what evil characters you should create. The good team will have no way of knowing whether your Engineer ability worked or not.
+* Try to make the good players doubt their information by stating that you’re being told that the good team is losing, but you can’t figure out why. This is especially effective if you know, for a fact, that the good team is getting large amounts of very useful, correct information.
-* If you want to confuse the good team, tell them that you have created evil characters that are different to the real evil characters in play.
+* If you think evil is winning, even slightly, consistently tell the group that the good team is winning. Never say that neither team is winning. If the good team consistently believes that they are winning when they are not, they should continue to believe what they believe and not change their suspicions to new players. On the final day, believing that they have made correct decisions and wise judgments the whole game, they will likely execute the wrong player based on wrong information. Encourage their overconfidence.
-* If you want to look like a good player, at the expense of helping the good team gain clarity, tell them that you have created evil characters that are the same as the real evil characters in play.
+* To give more damaging misinformation, at the expense of being less trustworthy, give information that fluctuates wildly between "good is winning" and "evil is winning". This implies that the group is making big decisions that are swinging the game one way then another, and will have the effect of the good team incorrectly analysing their past assumptions and actions. However, if your information is too wild and doesn't seem to match up plausibly with past actions, they may disbelieve you and execute you. As such, this strategy is better for Minions.
-* Whatever character(s) you decide to tell the good team that you have created, have a solid, ready-made, well-prepared story as to WHY you made that choice. Often, the good team will focus on the extra threat that a new evil character creates as opposed to the benefit of removing other evil characters, and look at your choice as one that has made the evil team more powerful. For example, if you tell them that you have created a {{Evil|Witch}} and a {{Evil|Cerenovus}}, the good team may cry foul if all they see is the extra possibility of dying during the day, but if you tell them that you created these characters specifically to avoid the possibility of a {{Evil|Mastermind}} or a {{Evil|Goblin}} and that the group is very familiar with Sects & Violets so you figured that the good team would play best against Minions that they are familiar with, that will be more believable that a simple shrug of your shoulders.
+* To be more trustworthy, at the expense of giving less harmful misinformation, never fluctuate between saying "good is winning" and "evil is winning" on consecutive nights. Have at least one night where you claim to have been told that "neither team is winning" so that the jump from one team winning to the other seems less drastic, and more the result of gradual change over several days. This gradual change from one team winning to another is more likely in reality, so there is a greater chance that the good team will believe that you are the General. However, this is less impactful on the good team's decisions, or at least will take more time. As such, this strategy is better for Demons.
-* Bluffing as the Engineer is highly dependent on which Minions and Demons are on the character sheet. Before bluffing as the Engineer, chat with your fellow evil players and find out what characters they are, and tell them that you are planning to bluff as the Engineer. Knowing which evil characters are really in play, and what those players intend to do, will greatly help smooth out the rough edges of your Engineer bluff.
+* Whenever something significant happens in the game, such as the good team campaigning for and very nearly executing a public {{Evil|Goblin}}, or the {{Good|Undertaker}} telling the group that a {{Evil|Scarlet Woman}} must be in play because the Demon was just executed, or the {{Good|Virgin}} causing a player to be executed, or waking up to find that the player that died is suddenly claiming to be the {{Good|Klutz}}, drastically change which team you say is winning. Presumably, up until this point, you've been spreading false information about which team is winning. After a major event, it makes complete sense for the General to learn that a new team is winning. Play into the good team's beliefs, and take the opportunity to feed them even more dramatic false information.
 </div>