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Balloonist and Organ Grinder: Difference between pages

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[[File:icon_balloonist.png|250px]]
[[File:icon_organgrinder.png|250px]]
<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 10px;">Information</span>
<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 10px;">Information</span>


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<tr>
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<td>Type</td>
<td>Type</td>
<td>[[Character Types#Townsfolk|Townsfolk]]</td>
<td>[[Character Types#Minion|Minion]]</td>
</tr>
</tr>
</table>
</table>


<p class='flavour'>"More heat! Higher! Higher! Più alto! Ahhh... it is so beautiful from up here, don't you agree? Can you see the children fishing by the river, under the willow? Can you see the  glint of the sun on the circus tent-poles? What's this? An old man, alone, passed out in the vineyard? Less heat! Lower! Lower! Vai più in basso!"</p>
<p class='flavour'>"“If you want people to believe your lies, set them to music."</p>


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== Summary ==
== Summary ==
"Each night, you learn 1 player of each character type, until there are no more types to learn. [+1 Outsider]"
"All players keep their eyes closed when voting & the vote tally is secret. Votes for you only count if you vote."


The Balloonist knows a Townsfolk, an Outsider, a Minion, and a Demon, but gets them confused.
The Organ Grinder makes voting secret.
* When a player is nominated, players vote with eyes closed.
* The Storyteller does not count the votes out loud, and does not reveal how many players voted once voting is complete.
* The Storyteller does not reveal which player is “about to die”.
* After nominations have closed, the Storyteller reveals which player is executed, as normal.
* Dead players may vote once if they have a vote token. Their vote token is removed at the end of the day instead of after the vote.
* If the Organ Grinder is nominated but does not vote for themselves, the vote is not successful and counts as “zero votes” for purposes of deciding which player is executed.
* If the Organ Grinder is nominated and votes for themselves, their self-vote counts as a vote, as normal.
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== How to Run ==


== How to Run ==
When a player is nominated, ask all players to close their eyes. If they ask why, tell them that an Organ Grinder is in play. When counting votes, do so silently. Afterwards, do not reveal how many players voted, nor if the nominee is “about to die”. If there were enough votes to execute the nominee, mark them with the '''ABOUT TO DIE''' reminder. Ask players to open their eyes, and if there are any more nominations.
When putting character tokens into the bag, remove a Townsfolk and add an Outsider instead. Each night including the first, wake the Balloonist and point to a single player (alive or dead) and place the corresponding “Seen Townsfolk/Outsider/Minion/Demon” reminder token next to them, ensuring not to repeat the same type as has been used before (i.e. don’t move reminder tokens once placed). Do not show them a character token or indicate which specific type this player is, just show them a player.
 
If the Organ Grinder is nominated, follow the above process, but do not place or move the '''ABOUT TO DIE''' reminder if the Organ Grinder didn’t vote.


On each subsequent night, therefore, you will have fewer character types to show as you only have your remaining reminder tokens to place. It is legitimate to show the same player to the Balloonist more than once, if they either have different character types when shown or register as having a different character type. Unless you have a strong reason to, it’s usually recommended to not show Travellers early, as this is essentially giving the Balloonist no information at all that night as all players know which players are Travellers without needing to use any abilities.
When nominations are closed, declare that the player marked '''ABOUT TO DIE''', '''dies'''.


If there are no characters of a given type in play and you have shown the Balloonist all other types, stop waking the Balloonist. Note that even if a character of this missing type comes into play on a night after you’ve stopped waking the Balloonist, do not wake the Balloonist again on a later night to show them this player – the Balloonist ability was complete when you stopped waking them.
<div class="example" style="color: #5d2123; font-style: italic; font-family: GoudyOldStyle;">
Players are not allowed to use other methods to determine who is voting, such as touch or sound. It is a secret.
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<div class='example'>
<div class='example'>
On the first night, the Balloonist learns Lewis (i.e. the Storyteller points to Lewis). On the second night, the Balloonist learns Doug. On the third night, the Balloonist learns Lachlan. On the fourth night, the Balloonist learns Marianna.  
There are 8 players alive. The {{Good|Noble}} is nominated. All players close eyes to vote and the {{Good|Noble}} gets 5 votes. The {{Evil|Imp}} is nominated. All players close eyes to vote and the Imp gets 7 votes. The {{Good|Pixie}} is nominated. All players close eyes to vote and the {{Good|Pixie}} gets 4 votes. After nominations close, the Storyteller declares that Doug (the {{Evil|Imp}}) is executed and dies, and that good has won.
</div>
</div>


<div class='example'>
<div class='example'>
Ben is the Balloonist. On the first night, Ben learns Sarah. On the second night, Ben learns Abdallah. On the third night, Ben dies, so does not learn any more players. Sarah is claiming to be the {{Good|Monk}} and Abdallah is claiming to be the {{Evil|Goblin}}. Ben assumes that he has learnt one Townsfolk player and one Minion player, but he is incorrect - Sarah is the {{Good|Lunatic}} and Abdallah is the {{Evil|Leviathan}}. Ben has actually learnt an Outsider player and a Demon player.  
There are 5 players alive. 2 players have 3 votes each. The Organ Grinder has 4 votes, but did not vote for themselves. There is no execution today, because the vote was tied.
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== Tips & Tricks ==
== Tips & Tricks ==


* Keep your identity a secret for as long as possible. If the Balloonist can survive for four nights, including the first, they learn 4 people, 1 of which is the Demon. Even in a 7-player game that cuts out half of the options. In a 15-player game, that narrows the window down to less than a third of the game.
* Flex your execution immortality. Try to make yourself suspicious, but not overly so, so that you get enough votes to be executed on a few different days, but survive due to your ability. If you’re too suspicious, though, it might out that you’re the Organ Grinder. If absolutely everyone else is claiming to have voted for you but you’re not dead, that’s probably going to convince people that you’re the Organ Grinder and they probably won’t try to execute you again or target you with abilities, and therefore will put more effort into finding your Demon. If, instead, you can be just suspicious enough to get some votes, you might be “executed” several times, wasting plenty of the good team’s time…


* Come out early if you don’t think you’ll survive the whole game. You added an Outsider to the game, but that isn’t wholly a bad thing. Being able to trust the extra Outsider claim once you find them is very valuable for your team's deductions. You can probably help confirm the increased Outsider count, and this means there is now a small cluster of probably trusted good players. In an 8-player game, there should only be 1 Outsider, but 2 players come out as Outsiders. You can then come out as the Balloonist, and your claim now seems credible, and well as making the Outsiders seem credible. That’s three players who are likely to be good.  
* Try to orchestrate the same situation for your Demon! Try to get almost enough votes on them, then have the entire evil team claim to have voted for them too, to make them look like they might be the Organ Grinder and therefore a waste of time to try to execute.


* In a small game, it’s highly likely that there won’t even be 4 nights. In this case, your info probably won’t help you learn who the Demon is, but it will likely help you determine maybe two players who are different character types. You learn 2 different players before dying, but you learn that one of them is the {{Good|Golem}} therefore, the other one has to be not an Outsider, and 2 out of 3 of those options are evil.
* Consider carefully if you ever want to get yourself executed. Bearing in mind that when you die, it’s likely you’ll be outed as the Organ Grinder because votes will suddenly become open, you need to have a good reason to vote for yourself for execution. Maybe you think your Demon might be executed instead if you don’t get enough votes yourself? Maybe your Demon is the one leading the charge against you and getting executed at their behest will convince town that they’re most likely good?


* Half the players you get shown are good, and half are evil. Even if you cannot figure out who the Demon is, your information tells you that two of these players know they’re on the same team and two players don’t know they are. You learn 4 players, and you've been observing 2 of them colluding since the beginning of the game, while 2 of them haven't been interacting at all. It is very likely that you've managed to discover the Demon one of its Minions working together.
* Consider when you’re going to claim to have voted - you can’t afford to claim too wildly about when you’ve voted and when you haven’t, as the good team will work out that something is awry when the votes claimed don’t line up with actual executions. It’s often best to only lie about who you’ve voted for at crux moments so you can hide among the masses.


* In larger games, your information is extremely powerful, and it gets more powerful the more you get. However, even an incomplete set still has value. For example, if you know that three players are different character types, you know that at least one of them is evil, and at least one of them is good. Therefore, you can deduce that any theories that have your whole set as on your team are suspect, because there has to be a Minion or Demon in there somewhere.
* Don’t feel the need to vote for people you don’t want executed in order to blend in. No-one knows who you’re voting for, so you never need to vote for an evil player in the entire game if you don’t want to!


* If you’re ever poisoned on any of those four nights, it undermines the whole 4 nights of information. Remember this as you are a high priority target for being poisoned. If there is a {{Evil|Widow}} or a {{Evil|Poisoner}} in play, they’re likely to want to poison you. You get good information on 3 different nights, but on the night you would have learned who the Demon is, you get poisoned, and learn a second Townsfolk instead.
* Try to create situations where there are lots of nominations in a day. The good team will struggle to try and keep track of all the votes that happen and which ones they did and didn't vote on which will give Evil players to bluff being confused as well.


* If you can confirm the role of one of the players you are shown, you’ll learn that all other players seen cannot be that role. If one of the players you see can be proven to be a Townsfolk because of the {{Good|Virgin}}, you know all other players you see are not Townsfolk.
* Lie with abandon about when you’ve voted! No-one can know for sure who’s the one lying among the group, you’re only one vote among several that had to vote a given way for anyone to be executed, so you can just say whatever you like about voting to suit your agenda.


* If you are in a game that should have no Outsiders by default, try to find an Outsider as this will give you credibility. More importantly, since they will have to be the Outsider you get shown, you will know that all other targets you are shown cannot be Outsiders.  
* Remember that you don’t know who’s been voted for and put on the block either. Be wary of any nomination of your Demon as you can never know if there was actually a groundswell of support for their execution that you hadn’t expected and they might now be on the block.


* Be careful of characters with abilities that register as something else. A {{Good|Recluse}} might falsely register as the Minion to you, and the {{Good|Spy}} might falsely register as the Outsider to you.  
* Coordinate votes with your evil team - while you don’t have a majority in votes, the good team not being able to coordinate as easily means that uniting together behind certain nominations might allow you to swing executions in your favour, especially if your whole team is alive in the mid-game.


* If you ever learn yourself from the storyteller, that is fantastic information. It means the rest of your set aren’t Townsfolk, and so if any of them do claim to be Townsfolk, you have good reason to be suspicious. Additionally, most of the remaining players you will learn will be evil, one being the Minion and the other the demon, leaving only the Outsider as on your team. Learning yourself as the Townsfolk is very rare though, and the Storyteller will only do it in a Teensyville game, or when the good team has very little other information, or both.
* Be wary of endgame. If the game goes to a final three and the good team are pretty certain that you are the Organ Grinder, then they’ve got a 50/50 between the other two living players as to which is the Demon. Do your best to continue to obfuscate that fact in the endgame - you very much need to still be a viable Demon candidate in final three or your chances aren’t great! This might be a good reason to vote for yourself on the penultimate day - yes your ability goes out of play, but it’s an execution on someone who isn’t your Demon and it leaves three Demon candidates on the final day, not just two.


* If the town has no idea who to execute, but still wants someone to die, someone that you have learnt isn’t the worst option - even if you think that they are good. You have a 25% chance of getting the Demon randomly. Those odds of instant victory aren’t anything to sneeze at.
* Control the narrative. Try to organize the entire town to execute people you think would be good to execute. The good team’s only hope of executing is by working together as they can't see who is voting for what, so try to get them voting on the same page as you.
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== Bluffing as the Balloonist ==
== Fighting the Organ Grinder ==
 
When bluffing as the Balloonist, there are a few things you should keep in mind:


* Remember that the Balloonist player isn't shown an an alignment, character, or character type, and doesn't know in what order the players are being shown. The Balloonist player is woken each night, the Storyteller points to a player, then the Balloonist goes back to sleep.  
* Discuss your nominations before making them. It is more likely for a vote to go through if all good players fully understand the accusation and logic before the nomination is made and other players might be able to contribute information towards a nomination that you can try to rally people behind.


* Remember that if you're bluffing as the Balloonist, there should be an additional Outsider in play. You should have a chat with another evil player who comes out as an Outsider to help bolster your claim. You claim you’re the Balloonist, and another player says they’re the {{Good|Butler}} and the group waits for another Outsider claim. The Demon, wanting to play into your bluff comes out as the {{Good|Sweetheart}} pretends to gets angry at you for forcing their hand and revealing themselves.
* Make your intent to vote clear early! It’s a natural instinct in Clocktower to want to watch the other votes as they go round in order to inform your own, so you may not speak up earlier to not lock yourself into voting one way or the other. In an Organ Grinder game, though, you can’t see the votes and you want to coordinate, so it’s worth letting people know you intend to vote so they know it’s potentially worth voting with you.
* The Balloonist’s information is about trying to point out that two or more players cannot be the same type. You can pretend to use this information to make good players seem evil. Two players come out as Townsfolk, but then you reveal that you are the Balloonist, meaning that if you were telling the truth, one of those Townsfolk claims is false (of course, you’re lying, but they don’t know that yet). One player claims to be the {{Good|Mayor}} and another player claims to be a {{Good|Bounty Hunter}}, you can suggest that one of them is lying about their character type by suggesting that your information includes both of them.


* Be very careful in what players you choose. Clumsily claiming players as part of your set can accidentally implicate yourself and/or your demon, leaving you in a real pickle if you need to change your story.
* Conversely, make your intent not to vote clear as well! If you think you probably got enough votes on someone who feels like the best execution for the day, publicly announce you won’t be voting for anyone else as you think that person is the best choice. Encourage others to consider the same position - after all when you don’t know the results of a vote, fewer nominations means fewer chances to accidentally tie…


* The Balloonist is a really good claim to fall back on if you don’t have a claim straight away. The Balloonist has good reason to try and hide even right up till the final night. They are trying to fly under the radar for a total of four nights.  
* Pay attention to which players say they are voting on executions that seem to get beaten or fail. Evil will be saying they’re voting on things that they aren’t and not voting on things that they are.


* Because the Balloonist eventually learns who the Demon is, if you’re able to survive four nights, you can reveal four players, none of which are the Demon. However, when you do this, you’re about to indirectly accuse two players of being evil. If there is another Minion in play, maybe throw them under the bus to make your information seem more credible, because it doesn’t matter as long as you mislead the group on who the Demon is.
* Try to work out who the Organ Grinder is. If you have means to block the Organ Grinder on the good team, whether through the {{Good|Courtier}}, {{Good|Sailor}}, {{Good|Innkeeper}} or others, try to use them to narrow down Organ Grinder candidates.


* When pointing the finger at four players, make sure that you are pointing at an Outsider in that group. If you forget to do so, you might be left contradicting yourself, saying you added an Outsider but not having a set that excludes an/the Outsider claim.
* If you’re not sure who the Organ Grinder is and you’ve got a day or two to spare when you’re not sure who to nominate, nominate your suspicions and try to rally players around getting a lot of votes to see if they die. If not, they’re probably the Organ Grinder that just blocked their own execution by not voting.


* When pointing the finger at four players, make sure that at least one of them stays alive, if you want to stay alive too. After all four players die, the good team will know that you are lying, because the Demon was supposed to be one of those four dead players.
* If you’re reasonably confident who the Organ Grinder is, maybe don’t bother nominating them. That’s one player that’s definitely not the Demon and having them go to the final 3 gives you a 50/50 choice between the other two!


* If people believe that you are the Balloonist, you can get eight good players killed - a character that you implicate each day, and the character that the Demon kills at night. This is basically a sure victory for the evil team. Getting eight good players a one-way ticket to dead-town is incredibly helpful, and this is much more devastating than other characters can do. The real Balloonist can get 4 players executed, 2 of which you really do want executed. But a fake Balloonist gets 4 players that you really do want executed.
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[[Category:Experimental Characters]]
[[Category:Experimental Characters]]
[[Category:Townsfolk]]
[[Category:Minions]]

Revision as of 10:17, 28 March 2023

Icon organgrinder.png Information

Type Minion

"“If you want people to believe your lies, set them to music."

Summary

"All players keep their eyes closed when voting & the vote tally is secret. Votes for you only count if you vote."

The Organ Grinder makes voting secret.

  • When a player is nominated, players vote with eyes closed.
  • The Storyteller does not count the votes out loud, and does not reveal how many players voted once voting is complete.
  • The Storyteller does not reveal which player is “about to die”.
  • After nominations have closed, the Storyteller reveals which player is executed, as normal.
  • Dead players may vote once if they have a vote token. Their vote token is removed at the end of the day instead of after the vote.
  • If the Organ Grinder is nominated but does not vote for themselves, the vote is not successful and counts as “zero votes” for purposes of deciding which player is executed.
  • If the Organ Grinder is nominated and votes for themselves, their self-vote counts as a vote, as normal.

How to Run

When a player is nominated, ask all players to close their eyes. If they ask why, tell them that an Organ Grinder is in play. When counting votes, do so silently. Afterwards, do not reveal how many players voted, nor if the nominee is “about to die”. If there were enough votes to execute the nominee, mark them with the ABOUT TO DIE reminder. Ask players to open their eyes, and if there are any more nominations.

If the Organ Grinder is nominated, follow the above process, but do not place or move the ABOUT TO DIE reminder if the Organ Grinder didn’t vote.

When nominations are closed, declare that the player marked ABOUT TO DIE, dies.

Players are not allowed to use other methods to determine who is voting, such as touch or sound. It is a secret.

Examples

There are 8 players alive. The Noble is nominated. All players close eyes to vote and the Noble gets 5 votes. The Imp is nominated. All players close eyes to vote and the Imp gets 7 votes. The Pixie is nominated. All players close eyes to vote and the Pixie gets 4 votes. After nominations close, the Storyteller declares that Doug (the Imp) is executed and dies, and that good has won.

There are 5 players alive. 2 players have 3 votes each. The Organ Grinder has 4 votes, but did not vote for themselves. There is no execution today, because the vote was tied.

Tips & Tricks

  • Flex your execution immortality. Try to make yourself suspicious, but not overly so, so that you get enough votes to be executed on a few different days, but survive due to your ability. If you’re too suspicious, though, it might out that you’re the Organ Grinder. If absolutely everyone else is claiming to have voted for you but you’re not dead, that’s probably going to convince people that you’re the Organ Grinder and they probably won’t try to execute you again or target you with abilities, and therefore will put more effort into finding your Demon. If, instead, you can be just suspicious enough to get some votes, you might be “executed” several times, wasting plenty of the good team’s time…
  • Try to orchestrate the same situation for your Demon! Try to get almost enough votes on them, then have the entire evil team claim to have voted for them too, to make them look like they might be the Organ Grinder and therefore a waste of time to try to execute.
  • Consider carefully if you ever want to get yourself executed. Bearing in mind that when you die, it’s likely you’ll be outed as the Organ Grinder because votes will suddenly become open, you need to have a good reason to vote for yourself for execution. Maybe you think your Demon might be executed instead if you don’t get enough votes yourself? Maybe your Demon is the one leading the charge against you and getting executed at their behest will convince town that they’re most likely good?
  • Consider when you’re going to claim to have voted - you can’t afford to claim too wildly about when you’ve voted and when you haven’t, as the good team will work out that something is awry when the votes claimed don’t line up with actual executions. It’s often best to only lie about who you’ve voted for at crux moments so you can hide among the masses.
  • Don’t feel the need to vote for people you don’t want executed in order to blend in. No-one knows who you’re voting for, so you never need to vote for an evil player in the entire game if you don’t want to!
  • Try to create situations where there are lots of nominations in a day. The good team will struggle to try and keep track of all the votes that happen and which ones they did and didn't vote on which will give Evil players to bluff being confused as well.
  • Lie with abandon about when you’ve voted! No-one can know for sure who’s the one lying among the group, you’re only one vote among several that had to vote a given way for anyone to be executed, so you can just say whatever you like about voting to suit your agenda.
  • Remember that you don’t know who’s been voted for and put on the block either. Be wary of any nomination of your Demon as you can never know if there was actually a groundswell of support for their execution that you hadn’t expected and they might now be on the block.
  • Coordinate votes with your evil team - while you don’t have a majority in votes, the good team not being able to coordinate as easily means that uniting together behind certain nominations might allow you to swing executions in your favour, especially if your whole team is alive in the mid-game.
  • Be wary of endgame. If the game goes to a final three and the good team are pretty certain that you are the Organ Grinder, then they’ve got a 50/50 between the other two living players as to which is the Demon. Do your best to continue to obfuscate that fact in the endgame - you very much need to still be a viable Demon candidate in final three or your chances aren’t great! This might be a good reason to vote for yourself on the penultimate day - yes your ability goes out of play, but it’s an execution on someone who isn’t your Demon and it leaves three Demon candidates on the final day, not just two.
  • Control the narrative. Try to organize the entire town to execute people you think would be good to execute. The good team’s only hope of executing is by working together as they can't see who is voting for what, so try to get them voting on the same page as you.

Fighting the Organ Grinder

  • Discuss your nominations before making them. It is more likely for a vote to go through if all good players fully understand the accusation and logic before the nomination is made and other players might be able to contribute information towards a nomination that you can try to rally people behind.
  • Make your intent to vote clear early! It’s a natural instinct in Clocktower to want to watch the other votes as they go round in order to inform your own, so you may not speak up earlier to not lock yourself into voting one way or the other. In an Organ Grinder game, though, you can’t see the votes and you want to coordinate, so it’s worth letting people know you intend to vote so they know it’s potentially worth voting with you.
  • Conversely, make your intent not to vote clear as well! If you think you probably got enough votes on someone who feels like the best execution for the day, publicly announce you won’t be voting for anyone else as you think that person is the best choice. Encourage others to consider the same position - after all when you don’t know the results of a vote, fewer nominations means fewer chances to accidentally tie…
  • Pay attention to which players say they are voting on executions that seem to get beaten or fail. Evil will be saying they’re voting on things that they aren’t and not voting on things that they are.
  • Try to work out who the Organ Grinder is. If you have means to block the Organ Grinder on the good team, whether through the Courtier, Sailor, Innkeeper or others, try to use them to narrow down Organ Grinder candidates.
  • If you’re not sure who the Organ Grinder is and you’ve got a day or two to spare when you’re not sure who to nominate, nominate your suspicions and try to rally players around getting a lot of votes to see if they die. If not, they’re probably the Organ Grinder that just blocked their own execution by not voting.
  • If you’re reasonably confident who the Organ Grinder is, maybe don’t bother nominating them. That’s one player that’s definitely not the Demon and having them go to the final 3 gives you a 50/50 choice between the other two!
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