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Politician and Organ Grinder: Difference between pages

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<div id='character-details'>
<div id='character-details'>


[[File:icon_politician.png|250px]]
[[File:icon_organgrinder.png|250px]]
<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 10px;">Information</span>
<span style="display: block; color: black; font-size: 20px; text-align: center; margin-top: 10px;">Information</span>


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<tr>
<tr>
<td>Type</td>
<td>Type</td>
<td>[[Character Types#Outsider|Outsider]]</td>
<td>[[Character Types#Minion|Minion]]</td>
</tr>
</tr>
</table>
</table>


<p class='flavour'>"I'm glad you asked that question. Truly, I am. But I think the REAL question here is..."</p>
<p class='flavour'>"Round and round the handles go, the more you dance the less you know."</p>


</div>
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<div class="small-12 large-6 columns">
== Summary ==
== Summary ==
"If you were the player most responsible for your team losing, you change alignment & win, even if dead."
"All players keep their eyes closed when voting & the vote tally is secret. Votes for you only count if you vote."


The Politician changes teams if they are losing.
The Organ Grinder makes voting secret.
* When a player is nominated, players vote with eyes closed.
* The Storyteller does not count the votes out loud, and does not reveal how many players voted once voting is complete.
* The Storyteller does not reveal which player is “about to die”.
* After nominations have closed, the Storyteller reveals which player is executed, as normal.
* Dead players may vote once if they have a vote token. Their vote token is removed at the end of the day instead of after the vote.
* If the Organ Grinder is nominated but does not vote for themselves, the vote is not successful and counts as “zero votes” for purposes of deciding which player is executed.
* If the Organ Grinder is nominated and votes for themselves, their self-vote counts as a vote, as normal.
</div>
</div>


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<div class="small-12 large-6 columns" style="padding-right: 0;">
== How to Run ==


== How to Run ==
When a player is nominated, ask all players to close their eyes. If they ask why, tell them that an Organ Grinder is in play. When counting votes, do so silently. Afterwards, do not reveal how many players voted, nor if the nominee is “about to die”. If there were enough votes to execute the nominee, mark them with the '''ABOUT TO DIE''' reminder. Ask players to open their eyes, and if there are any more nominations.
When the game ends, consider the influence the Politician had on the specific result of which team won. If the Politician was the major dominant force in making the opposing team win, they change alignment and win with that team. In all other situations, the Politician stays the same alignment and wins/loses accordingly.  
 
If the Organ Grinder is nominated, follow the above process, but do not place or move the '''ABOUT TO DIE''' reminder if the Organ Grinder didn’t vote.


Note that the Politician only changes alignment right at the end of the game, so even if they’re playing for evil, they still register as good for any alignment-checking abilities.
When nominations are closed, declare that the player marked '''ABOUT TO DIE''', '''dies'''.


If the Politician is drunk/poisoned during the game it doesn’t matter, except if the game ends during that time. If so, they cannot change alignment in order to win, regardless of how significant their efforts for the opposing team might have been.
<div class="example" style="color: #5d2123; font-style: italic; font-family: GoudyOldStyle;">
Players are not allowed to use other methods to determine who is voting, such as touch or sound. It is a secret.
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<div class='example'>
<div class='example'>
The Politician has been trying to execute the Demon all game, without success. With just three players alive, the Politician convinces the group to not execute, since someone is claiming to be the {{Good|Mayor}}. There is no execution, and evil wins because a Minion was bluffing as the {{Good|Mayor}}. The Politician wins too.
There are 8 players alive. The {{Good|Noble}} is nominated. All players close eyes to vote and the {{Good|Noble}} gets 5 votes. The {{Evil|Imp}} is nominated. All players close eyes to vote and the Imp gets 7 votes. The {{Good|Pixie}} is nominated. All players close eyes to vote and the {{Good|Pixie}} gets 4 votes. After nominations close, the Storyteller declares that Doug (the {{Evil|Imp}}) is executed and dies, and that good has won.
</div>
 
<div class='example'>
On the final day, the Politician votes for the {{Good|Empath}}, and tells the group that the {{Good|Empath}} is evil. The {{Good|Saint}} is executed instead. The Storyteller judges that the good team lost due to their own actions as a group, not just the bad advice of the Politician. Good loses, and the Politician loses.
</div>
 
<div class='example'>
The Politician, believing that evil is winning, bluffs as the {{Good|Atheist}}. The Storyteller is executed. Evil wins, and the Politician wins too.
</div>
</div>


<div class='example'>
<div class='example'>
On the final day, the Politician ties the vote, forcing no execution to occur. That night, the Demon kills a player, making evil win. The Politician wins too.
There are 5 players alive. 2 players have 3 votes each. The Organ Grinder has 4 votes, but did not vote for themselves. There is no execution today, because the vote was tied.
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== Tips & Tricks ==
== Tips & Tricks ==


* Come out with a bluff on day 1, and then stick with it. Don’t deviate from your claim, don’t change up your story, remain a consistent, static source of false information, and an unfailing obstacle to the good team’s ability to piece together the truth. Claim to be an {{Good|Artist}} who learned that {{Evil|Legion}} is in play, and force the good team to take that into account.
* Flex your execution immortality. Try to make yourself suspicious, but not overly so, so that you get enough votes to be executed on a few different days, but survive due to your ability. If you’re too suspicious, though, it might out that you’re the Organ Grinder. If absolutely everyone else is claiming to have voted for you but you’re not dead, that’s probably going to convince people that you’re the Organ Grinder and they probably won’t try to execute you again or target you with abilities, and therefore will put more effort into finding your Demon. If, instead, you can be just suspicious enough to get some votes, you might be “executed” several times, wasting plenty of the good team’s time…
 
* Bluff as extreme and ridiculous as you can! The more outlandish your bluff, the more chance that you will be the player most responsible for the loss, should the good team believe it! Pretend to be the {{Good|Atheist}}! Pretend a {{Good|Saint}} is your {{Evil|Evil Twin}}! Claim that you were Snakecharmed, then turned into the {{Good|Klutz}}! Dominate the game with your crazy schemes and spread as much misinformation as possible. If the good team believes you, you can lock in a win for the evil team. Even if they don’t, the havoc you have bring may be enough to lose the game for the good team anyway.
 
* Bluff quietly and well. Do everything you can to make sure no one suspects you are the Politician, then feed in a crucial piece of misinformation at the last possible second. Come out with a piece of false {{Good|Seamstress}} information on the final day that frames a good player as evil, and clinch the win.


* Make up some false information, and go hard after a specific player. Pretend to be an {{Good|Investigator}}, a {{Good|Fortune Teller}}, a {{Good|Bounty Hunter}}, and set up another player as evil. If they’re good, this can be the deciding factor that clinches a win for the evil team. If you accidentally get the Demon killed, well, you win anyway.
* Try to orchestrate the same situation for your Demon! Try to get almost enough votes on them, then have the entire evil team claim to have voted for them too, to make them look like they might be the Organ Grinder and therefore a waste of time to try to execute.


* Pay attention to character win or lose conditions. Then try and trigger them. If you can engineer the execution of a {{Evil|Goblin}}, or a good Twin, or a second good player in a {{Evil|Leviathan}} game, your victory is all but assured.
* Consider carefully if you ever want to get yourself executed. Bearing in mind that when you die, it’s likely you’ll be outed as the Organ Grinder because votes will suddenly become open, you need to have a good reason to vote for yourself for execution. Maybe you think your Demon might be executed instead if you don’t get enough votes yourself? Maybe your Demon is the one leading the charge against you and getting executed at their behest will convince town that they’re most likely good?


* Make sure the Storyteller sees your efforts. Being a minor contributor to the good team’s downfall isn’t going to cut it. Make sure the Storyteller is aware that you are the player most responsible for your team losing.
* Consider when you’re going to claim to have voted - you can’t afford to claim too wildly about when you’ve voted and when you haven’t, as the good team will work out that something is awry when the votes claimed don’t line up with actual executions. It’s often best to only lie about who you’ve voted for at crux moments so you can hide among the masses.


* Don’t rock the boat on the Outsider count. If there should only be one Outsider in play, and someone else is claiming to be the {{Good|Recluse}}, don’t challenge them. Remain hidden, and leave the good team in the dark – that single piece of misinformation about the Outsider count could be enough to win the day.
* Don’t feel the need to vote for people you don’t want executed in order to blend in. No-one knows who you’re voting for, so you never need to vote for an evil player in the entire game if you don’t want to!


* If good seems like they are on track to win, come out. Remember, you can win with the good team too. The information you can provide – which evil players are going along with your evil schemes, who has reacted to you double-claiming their characters, that you are an Outsider - could be the piece needed to win the game.
* Try to create situations where there are lots of nominations in a day. The good team will struggle to try and keep track of all the votes that happen and which ones they did and didn't vote on which will give Evil players to bluff being confused as well.


* Try and catch characters who detect alignment (but not character) in your schemes. Convince a {{Good|Seamstress}} to check you against a confirmed good player, or a {{Good|Moonchild}} to choose you after they die. Remember, you register as good – having you confirmed in their eyes can lead a lot of credence to your devious claims.
* Lie with abandon about when you’ve voted! No-one can know for sure who’s the one lying among the group, you’re only one vote among several that had to vote a given way for anyone to be executed, so you can just say whatever you like about voting to suit your agenda.


* Have characters with powerful, single-use abilities expend them on you. Convince a {{Good|Slayer}} to shoot you, nominate a {{Good|Virgin}}, or convince a {{Good|Professor}} to try and resurrect you. Make them use up their powerful abilities on a Politician, and undermine their efforts to gather information and make progress.
* Remember that you don’t know who’s been voted for and put on the block either. Be wary of any nomination of your Demon as you can never know if there was actually a groundswell of support for their execution that you hadn’t expected and they might now be on the block.


* Tie the vote on the final day. Even if you are dead. This is MEAN, but it works! If the good team doesn't execute on the final day, and then the Demon kills that night, evil will win. To win as the Politician using this method, you will need to be the player that cast the crucial vote - if the good team accidentally tied the vote, you will lose too. Your ability says "If you were the player MOST responsible..."
* Coordinate votes with your evil team - while you don’t have a majority in votes, the good team not being able to coordinate as easily means that uniting together behind certain nominations might allow you to swing executions in your favour, especially if your whole team is alive in the mid-game.


* Don't nominate at all on the final day if you think the other alive players are all evil. This will prevent the Demon from being nominated at all.  
* Be wary of endgame. If the game goes to a final three and the good team are pretty certain that you are the Organ Grinder, then they’ve got a 50/50 between the other two living players as to which is the Demon. Do your best to continue to obfuscate that fact in the endgame - you very much need to still be a viable Demon candidate in final three or your chances aren’t great! This might be a good reason to vote for yourself on the penultimate day - yes your ability goes out of play, but it’s an execution on someone who isn’t your Demon and it leaves three Demon candidates on the final day, not just two.


* If a Politician is on the script and you are not the Politician, be very careful who you trust. The Politician may be in play, throwing all manner of spanners in the works, yet registering as a good player. Just because someone appears good to a character like the {{Good|Seamstress}}, {{Good|Empath}} or {{Good|Noble}}, doesn't mean that you can trust them. Even if you are certain that nobody is drunk or poisoned.  
* Control the narrative. Try to organize the entire town to execute people you think would be good to execute. The good team’s only hope of executing is by working together as they can't see who is voting for what, so try to get them voting on the same page as you.
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== Bluffing as the Politician ==
== Fighting the Organ Grinder ==


When bluffing as the Politician, there are a few things you should keep in mind:
* Discuss your nominations before making them. It is more likely for a vote to go through if all good players fully understand the accusation and logic before the nomination is made and other players might be able to contribute information towards a nomination that you can try to rally people behind.


* It can be a lot of fun to tease the player group, by hinting that you are the Politician without outright coming out as the Politician. By being so over-the-top, you might make other players second guess themselves. Plus, it’s just awesome being outrageous. Then maybe hint that you're the {{Evil|Goblin}} if it's on the script and make them triple doubt themselves.  
* Make your intent to vote clear early! It’s a natural instinct in Clocktower to want to watch the other votes as they go round in order to inform your own, so you may not speak up earlier to not lock yourself into voting one way or the other. In an Organ Grinder game, though, you can’t see the votes and you want to coordinate, so it’s worth letting people know you intend to vote so they know it’s potentially worth voting with you.


* If you’re on the chopping block as an evil player, claim that you’re the Politician as a way to explain away your shady or evil actions. Promise to be good if they keep you alive. And then continue to hold this threat over their heads if they don't. However, using the Politician as a back up bluff can still backfire as people might want to execute you to reduce your voting and nominating ability.
* Conversely, make your intent not to vote clear as well! If you think you probably got enough votes on someone who feels like the best execution for the day, publicly announce you won’t be voting for anyone else as you think that person is the best choice. Encourage others to consider the same position - after all when you don’t know the results of a vote, fewer nominations means fewer chances to accidentally tie…


* If you think good is winning, claim that you’re the Politician just to throw a massive spanner into the works. Suddenly there’s a potentially extra evil vote in play, which the group has to take into account and it puts a lot more pressure on controlling the vote.  
* Pay attention to which players say they are voting on executions that seem to get beaten or fail. Evil will be saying they’re voting on things that they aren’t and not voting on things that they are.


* Tell a few people discreetly that you’re the Politician, so that your shady and evil actions seem much more plausible later on. Afterwards, shamelessly nominate the {{Good|Saint}} and try to get them executed, or try to get the wrong twin from the {{Evil|Evil Twin}} pair executed.  
* Try to work out who the Organ Grinder is. If you have means to block the Organ Grinder on the good team, whether through the {{Good|Courtier}}, {{Good|Sailor}}, {{Good|Innkeeper}} or others, try to use them to narrow down Organ Grinder candidates.


* Tell one or two players that you’re secretly a Politician, and suggest that they can make it worth your while not to undermine the good team. Use the threat of you possibly turning evil as a way to get the good team to do your own dirty work. Nothing more fun than a cat’s paw. Direct which players the {{Good|Lycanthrope}} chooses at night, get the good team to rat out the {{Good|Poppy Grower}}.
* If you’re not sure who the Organ Grinder is and you’ve got a day or two to spare when you’re not sure who to nominate, nominate your suspicions and try to rally players around getting a lot of votes to see if they die. If not, they’re probably the Organ Grinder that just blocked their own execution by not voting.


* Bluff as the Politician when there is already a Politician claim! This creates a lot of chaos and noise as players don’t know which player to believe. Best of all, you can lean into this nonsense by upping the stakes and gunning for the most evil action.
* If you’re reasonably confident who the Organ Grinder is, maybe don’t bother nominating them. That’s one player that’s definitely not the Demon and having them go to the final 3 gives you a 50/50 choice between the other two!


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[[Category:Experimental Characters]]
[[Category:Experimental Characters]]
[[Category:Outsiders]]
[[Category:Minions]]

Revision as of 12:41, 27 March 2023

Icon organgrinder.png Information

Type Minion

"Round and round the handles go, the more you dance the less you know."

Summary

"All players keep their eyes closed when voting & the vote tally is secret. Votes for you only count if you vote."

The Organ Grinder makes voting secret.

  • When a player is nominated, players vote with eyes closed.
  • The Storyteller does not count the votes out loud, and does not reveal how many players voted once voting is complete.
  • The Storyteller does not reveal which player is “about to die”.
  • After nominations have closed, the Storyteller reveals which player is executed, as normal.
  • Dead players may vote once if they have a vote token. Their vote token is removed at the end of the day instead of after the vote.
  • If the Organ Grinder is nominated but does not vote for themselves, the vote is not successful and counts as “zero votes” for purposes of deciding which player is executed.
  • If the Organ Grinder is nominated and votes for themselves, their self-vote counts as a vote, as normal.

How to Run

When a player is nominated, ask all players to close their eyes. If they ask why, tell them that an Organ Grinder is in play. When counting votes, do so silently. Afterwards, do not reveal how many players voted, nor if the nominee is “about to die”. If there were enough votes to execute the nominee, mark them with the ABOUT TO DIE reminder. Ask players to open their eyes, and if there are any more nominations.

If the Organ Grinder is nominated, follow the above process, but do not place or move the ABOUT TO DIE reminder if the Organ Grinder didn’t vote.

When nominations are closed, declare that the player marked ABOUT TO DIE, dies.

Players are not allowed to use other methods to determine who is voting, such as touch or sound. It is a secret.

Examples

There are 8 players alive. The Noble is nominated. All players close eyes to vote and the Noble gets 5 votes. The Imp is nominated. All players close eyes to vote and the Imp gets 7 votes. The Pixie is nominated. All players close eyes to vote and the Pixie gets 4 votes. After nominations close, the Storyteller declares that Doug (the Imp) is executed and dies, and that good has won.

There are 5 players alive. 2 players have 3 votes each. The Organ Grinder has 4 votes, but did not vote for themselves. There is no execution today, because the vote was tied.

Tips & Tricks

  • Flex your execution immortality. Try to make yourself suspicious, but not overly so, so that you get enough votes to be executed on a few different days, but survive due to your ability. If you’re too suspicious, though, it might out that you’re the Organ Grinder. If absolutely everyone else is claiming to have voted for you but you’re not dead, that’s probably going to convince people that you’re the Organ Grinder and they probably won’t try to execute you again or target you with abilities, and therefore will put more effort into finding your Demon. If, instead, you can be just suspicious enough to get some votes, you might be “executed” several times, wasting plenty of the good team’s time…
  • Try to orchestrate the same situation for your Demon! Try to get almost enough votes on them, then have the entire evil team claim to have voted for them too, to make them look like they might be the Organ Grinder and therefore a waste of time to try to execute.
  • Consider carefully if you ever want to get yourself executed. Bearing in mind that when you die, it’s likely you’ll be outed as the Organ Grinder because votes will suddenly become open, you need to have a good reason to vote for yourself for execution. Maybe you think your Demon might be executed instead if you don’t get enough votes yourself? Maybe your Demon is the one leading the charge against you and getting executed at their behest will convince town that they’re most likely good?
  • Consider when you’re going to claim to have voted - you can’t afford to claim too wildly about when you’ve voted and when you haven’t, as the good team will work out that something is awry when the votes claimed don’t line up with actual executions. It’s often best to only lie about who you’ve voted for at crux moments so you can hide among the masses.
  • Don’t feel the need to vote for people you don’t want executed in order to blend in. No-one knows who you’re voting for, so you never need to vote for an evil player in the entire game if you don’t want to!
  • Try to create situations where there are lots of nominations in a day. The good team will struggle to try and keep track of all the votes that happen and which ones they did and didn't vote on which will give Evil players to bluff being confused as well.
  • Lie with abandon about when you’ve voted! No-one can know for sure who’s the one lying among the group, you’re only one vote among several that had to vote a given way for anyone to be executed, so you can just say whatever you like about voting to suit your agenda.
  • Remember that you don’t know who’s been voted for and put on the block either. Be wary of any nomination of your Demon as you can never know if there was actually a groundswell of support for their execution that you hadn’t expected and they might now be on the block.
  • Coordinate votes with your evil team - while you don’t have a majority in votes, the good team not being able to coordinate as easily means that uniting together behind certain nominations might allow you to swing executions in your favour, especially if your whole team is alive in the mid-game.
  • Be wary of endgame. If the game goes to a final three and the good team are pretty certain that you are the Organ Grinder, then they’ve got a 50/50 between the other two living players as to which is the Demon. Do your best to continue to obfuscate that fact in the endgame - you very much need to still be a viable Demon candidate in final three or your chances aren’t great! This might be a good reason to vote for yourself on the penultimate day - yes your ability goes out of play, but it’s an execution on someone who isn’t your Demon and it leaves three Demon candidates on the final day, not just two.
  • Control the narrative. Try to organize the entire town to execute people you think would be good to execute. The good team’s only hope of executing is by working together as they can't see who is voting for what, so try to get them voting on the same page as you.

Fighting the Organ Grinder

  • Discuss your nominations before making them. It is more likely for a vote to go through if all good players fully understand the accusation and logic before the nomination is made and other players might be able to contribute information towards a nomination that you can try to rally people behind.
  • Make your intent to vote clear early! It’s a natural instinct in Clocktower to want to watch the other votes as they go round in order to inform your own, so you may not speak up earlier to not lock yourself into voting one way or the other. In an Organ Grinder game, though, you can’t see the votes and you want to coordinate, so it’s worth letting people know you intend to vote so they know it’s potentially worth voting with you.
  • Conversely, make your intent not to vote clear as well! If you think you probably got enough votes on someone who feels like the best execution for the day, publicly announce you won’t be voting for anyone else as you think that person is the best choice. Encourage others to consider the same position - after all when you don’t know the results of a vote, fewer nominations means fewer chances to accidentally tie…
  • Pay attention to which players say they are voting on executions that seem to get beaten or fail. Evil will be saying they’re voting on things that they aren’t and not voting on things that they are.
  • Try to work out who the Organ Grinder is. If you have means to block the Organ Grinder on the good team, whether through the Courtier, Sailor, Innkeeper or others, try to use them to narrow down Organ Grinder candidates.
  • If you’re not sure who the Organ Grinder is and you’ve got a day or two to spare when you’re not sure who to nominate, nominate your suspicions and try to rally players around getting a lot of votes to see if they die. If not, they’re probably the Organ Grinder that just blocked their own execution by not voting.
  • If you’re reasonably confident who the Organ Grinder is, maybe don’t bother nominating them. That’s one player that’s definitely not the Demon and having them go to the final 3 gives you a 50/50 choice between the other two!